Shotgun ID?

[Grimord]

I am hoping the forum members can help me identify this shotgun. I can find no markings on it. I found this at my local transfer station and cleaned it up. The silver finish is worn in places with a copper color bleeding thru. The lock has some faint engraving. The barrel is 33" long and the inside bore dimension at the muzzle is .685 (12 Ga?) The barrel is thin, and the gun is very light. It is missing a wedge key escutchon and some one re-sodered a ram rod pipe. Any help Identifying this gun would be appreciated, and its approximate worth.

Fyrstyk

 

[Grimord]

I hope the pictures come thru.

 

[bpd303]

A pretty common gun made from about 1840 till the early 1900s. A .685 bore will be closer to 14 gauge. I have two back action lock fowling pieces and they are both good shooters. If you intend to shoot it have it checked out by a black powder gunsmith if you are not able to do it yourself. As far as value they run around $150 to $200. I have heard them referred to as hardware store guns. Here is one of mine and except for the trigger guard they could be twins. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/290088/post/1416442/hl//fromsearch/1/

 

[nwtradegun]

in my part of us it would go 500-650 if a shooter maybe more

 

[bpd303]

The one I linked to cost me $160. I bought another one ready to shoot for $250. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/283028/post/1317300/hl//fromsearch/1/

I like those old fowling pieces, but have passed on many at $300.

 

[Grimord]

Thanks bpb303. This gun has no markings that I could find, and I believe it is a shooter. Bore is clean and except for the missing escutchon, the gun is sound. I never heard of a 14 gauge shotgun, but then I am more of a rifle guy. Any ideas of some good starting loads?
Fyrstyk

 

[Wes/Tex]

You old shotgun is a popular back-action style lock that began with the French M.1840 infantry musket. The design spread over the next 20 years and became popular with gun makers both here and in Europe. maker's marks or any proofing or inspection stamps can be illusive sometimes. Check under the barrel breach or even underneath stock hardware. "Viewing" and "inspector's" marks can show up in some really odd places. Maker's marks are usually engraved on barrel or lock plates but age and ear can virtually remove these if not deeply cut. Sometimes holding a light at odd angles to the metal surface will enable you to see them, even if worn too much to actually read.

As mentioned above, these old back-action guns generally don't bring a lot of money but a Christmas goose, or even squirrel, harvested with one will taste extra yummy! :wink: *

 

[nit wit]

Most likely Belgian. Make sure it's not loaded,snap a cap on each nipple with the muzzle on a leaf or blade of grass. When snapped the leaf should move. I'd start with 60 rrains og 2 f black powder and an equal amount of shot. Pick up an old or new Dixie catalog, lots of info in the back!
Have fun.
Nit Wit

 

[bpd303]

Yep, equal amounts of powder & shot work for me. My 13 gauge likes 70gr Goex ffg or Swiss 1.5 schutzen.

For a patched round ball a 14 gauge would take a ball between .672-.678 with an appropriate patch. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/127/3

 

[Grimord]

Thanks everyone for the info and load recommendations. I need to get a new nipple for this gun then I think I will obtain the wads necessary to load it and try it out at our range.

Fyrstyk

 

[44-henry]

Don't snap a cap on it, lord knows what it might have been loaded with if it is loaded. Check to see if it is loaded properly by measuring with a ramrod and comparing to the outside of the barrel the breech is, this should tell you if there is something down there. If there is pull the load, do not shoot it.

Any of the load suggestions should only be considered after your gun has been inspected and properly proofed. It looks like a nice gun in the picture and I agree it would bring much more than $200 in my area in that condition.

 

[Grimord]

I already checked the barrel for a load and it was loaded. I poured hot water down the barrel and removed the sludge so that it is clean. I can see the end of a pipe cleaner put in thru the nipple bolster from the end of the barrel so I now know that the gun is unloaded. Had the gun checked out by a gunsmith, and he said with light to moderate loads the gun should be fine to shoot.

Fyrstyk

 

[Barz51]

I just picked up a side by side that looks very similar and had "Collins-Maker" engraved on the rib between the barrels. I put a few pictures up here: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?fid/143/tid/294215/pid/1475385