Shredded Patches

[Gvilleddie]

I have an old (40 yrs) CVA kit rifle that I had in my safe and now I have a renewed interest in flinters. Rifle has never been shot much. I’ve been to the range a couple of times. Lock works great. Nice hot spark. First two shots are on the money at 50 yds. After that shots are all over the place. I found that the fired patches were just a bundle of shredded threads. ???? .45 cal, .490 ball. 50 gr. Of Old Enysford 3f, Muzzleloader Original .015 pre lubed patches. Why would the patches be shredded? Wrong size? Old product? Sorry barrel? Help....

 

[mooman76]

If they are old patches especially prelubed they can break down over time. If you never shot the gun much, also could have sharp lands. Likely the former though if it shot good before.

 

[ord sgt]

I presume you meant a .440 ball in your .45 calibre rifle, not a .490 (50 calibre).
Check the muzzle for sharp edges. It may be tearing the patches while loading. If the bore is new, there will be leftover machining burrs inside the barrel. These will smooth out with many shots. Or you could help speed up the process by wrapping 0000 steel wool around your cleaning jag and run that up and down the bore while listening to a song on the radio.

 

[Maven]

Gville...., Is this a typographical error? ???? .45 cal, .490 ball. 50 gr. Of Old Enysford Is your rifle a .45 or .50 caliber? Also, as mooman76 suggests, old, lubed patches may be weakened by age and the lube itself. I'd repeat the test with new patches of the same thickness. I'd also scour the bore with 0000 steel wool wetted with WD-40 or some other light lubricant before your next outing.

 

[oldwood]

I too , fell victim to the rotted pre- lubed patch material syndrome. Was trying the pre-lubed patches and found a load that worked in my rifle. Put the remainder of the pre-lubed patches away in a sealed zipper bag thinking they would last until needed in the future , but NO. They spent a year at room temp. in my shooting box , and when fired they were shredded around the edges. Balls all over the target. Replaced the rotted patches ,and all was well. That was 20+ years ago , and learned to only lube what is needed for an event , like a trip to the shooting range. ..........oldwood

 

[Gvilleddie]

Yes 440. Brain fart....

 

[Zonie]

I too , fell victim to the rotted pre- lubed patch material syndrome. Was trying the pre-lubed patches and found a load that worked in my rifle. Put the remainder of the pre-lubed patches away in a sealed zipper bag thinking they would last until needed in the future , but NO. They spent a year at room temp. in my shooting box , and when fired they were shredded around the edges. Balls all over the target. Replaced the rotted patches ,and all was well. That was 20+ years ago , and learned to only lube what is needed for an event , like a trip to the shooting range. ..........oldwood

It's quite common for all cloth patches to be badly frayed around the outside edge when they have been shot. That's what happens to cloth when it meets supersonic wind blasts like the patch does when it leaves the muzzle.

The old pre-lubed patches that cause problems are usually either partially or almost completely blown apart. Little fragments of cloth hanging together by a few threads.

Oils, both animal and mineral will cause the cotton fibers to lose their strength.
It takes some time but if the patches are over a year old you can almost bet the patches will fail when they are shot.
That's the problem with buying pre-lubed patches on the web or at a gun store. They may be very old but the packaging will look like it is in good condition.

 

[Gvilleddie]

These patches aren’t just frayed. They look like a little wad of louse threads. I’ve got some dry .018 mattress ticking patches that I can try. Is olive oil a good lube to start with? Thanks for all the helpful responses.

 

[Gvilleddie]

Loose - not louse.

 

[Woody Morgan]

I use only olive oil in both patches and felt wads. Many here add a little beeswax to the mixture.
Both work great and keeps fouling soft for easy loading.

wm

 

[hanshi]

They're always gonna be frayed around the edges but shouldn't have burns or holes. A lot of patch tearing occurs when starting prb at the muzzle, so you may need to polish the rifles crown. You'll do much better cutting your own patches.

 

[BadDaditood]

I can only imagine what pounding a .490 ball down a .45 cal bbl would do to a patch!!
Definately toss those prelubed patches and make your own, .018” better than thinner ones.
Olive oil works, so does spit.
The rifling might still be sharp in there.
I’ve used Butch’s Bore Lap and/or 0000 steel wool delicately on a new bbl, not sure what’s been lurking in yours for 40 years.
Half the fun is sorting out what’s makes these old guns happy!!

 

[GREENSWLDE]

More or less all the 0.006" Spit lub'd cotton patches I picked out of my Original 9.6mm(0.378") Schutzen with a 0.375" ball over 40grns of TS2 or Swiss 2 were fraid round the edges,presumably from wind damage leaving the muzzle at Sonic speeds. The ball was always said to still be Sonic after 100 yds after passing thru' the card target.. Never quite managed to punch the 100 at 50 Mtrs Off hand on a PL7. .OLD DOG..

 

[toot]

I use a wad over the powder & ball, so I have no blown patches. TOE, or HORNETS / WASP;S nest for wadding, it work's for me. any one else ever tried it?

 

[ohio ramrod]

I use a leather over powder wad. I started many years ago when deer hunting with greased mini's, and now use an over powder wad for all of my shooting weather patched round ball, or greased mini's.

 

[GREENSWLDE]

Why do you need to put a wad over a well fitted Ball and Patch. If your land depth match the ball and patch dimensions plus a thou or two you should have a good enough seal.?? OLD DOG

 

[Pete G]

He doesn't; re-read the post.

 

[Hatchet-Jack]

Your patch should have a black ring on the side the ball was in contact with and little to no discoloring in the center. If it's black on the inside of the ring it's too thin, this is because the ball was slipping out of the patch under pressure. If it's torn, has holes or is shredded badly and I mean shredded down to the ring its too thin. If it has cuts the rifle needs to be smoothed out with 100 shots. My sketch from my range notepad: