Siler on a Virginia

[longcruise]

I'm glad to see an accepted reference that supports my decision not to have a patch box on mine, after all the grief I got for mentioning I wasn't going to have one.

I agonized a bit over that same question. My original plan was to build a replica of the Bogle rifle as illustrated in Ron Borrons drawing. I just could not find a source of absolutely correct hardware without custom hammer work, which I can't afford . So, my build is pretty much turning into a genralized, sort of, kinda like Bogle.

But in looking at some of the basic steel patch box kits I think I can pretty much match the patch box as illustrated here:

Joseph Bogle rifle on Americanhistoric services

 

[tg]

When trying to keep guns PC/HC there is usually a pretty big sandbox to play in before you are ouit of the theme of things, recognizing the boundrys is sometimes a challenge, less so for those who have built many guns and handled scores of originals, it is an ongoing learning process for everyone, as we never know when that cache of iron mounted, dated1750 .36 caliber southern guns is found, or the orders for premium curly Maple planks to the Tulle factory in 1730

 

[longcruise]

When trying to keep guns PC/HC there is usually a pretty big sandbox to play in before you are ouit of the theme of things,

That's pretty much how I came to feel after doing some research. One begins to see that the commonly repeated "facts" and "rules" just ain't so! Learning some of the history of the guns and makers has become a more significant part of the process as time goes on. I may be wrong, but I'm thinking that building a gun trying to stick at least loosely with a school can give more insight than just looking at pics. Sort of a "walk a mile in their shoes" kind of thing.

I get very few chances to look at and handle antique guns and that's probably so for many others too.

 

[skunkhead]

Thanks Mike I haven't either but I have been wrong before Thanks again Skunkhead

 

[rich pierce]

Silers are obviously great locks but are used so often that sometimes it's fun to see something different. A larger lock on the same barrel allows for thinner lock panels which can be attractive.

 

[Okwaho]

I'm glad to see an accepted reference that supports my decision not to have a patch box on mine, after all the grief I got for mentioning I wasn't going to have one.

I agonized a bit over that same question. My original plan was to build a replica of the Bogle rifle as illustrated in Ron Borrons drawing. I just could not find a source of absolutely correct hardware without custom hammer work, which I can't afford . So, my build is pretty much turning into a genralized, sort of, kinda like Bogle.

But in looking at some of the basic steel patch box kits I think I can pretty much match the patch box as illustrated here:

Joseph Bogle rifle on Americanhistoric services

I dug the two Bogle rifles {the other had a banana box and was slightly later} out of the woodwork and have always been satisfied that the earlier one shown on Mel's web site was built about 1790-1800. Bogle died around 1811-1814 and was probably in very poor health for several years preceeding his death.He probably received his training in Virginia although it could have been in Pennsylvania where he was born.This rifle is one of several rifles that form a group found in Southwest Virginia that date from about 1800.I have seen four of them but am satisfied that there are more.This rifle is purely a Federal period rifle especially with the bright cut engraving on the silver name plate on the barrel and the "Jos Bogle" engraved on the plate.The lock is original but the externals were installed when the gun was reconverted to flint.
Tom Patton

 

[Okwaho]

TG Can you or mike set me on some books that show me any moutian rifles with siler or any germanic lock. You fellers have got my curiosity up. Thanks for any information Thanks Skunkhead

I have NEVER seen a post 1800 mountain rifle with a Germanic lock on it. ALWAYS english.

I agree with Mike here.I have looked at a thousand or more mountain rifles{mostly Tennessee and some Western North Carolina guns}over the past 40 odd years and I have never seen a Germanic lock on any of them.The locks were English or of English styling and were round tailed,round tailed with a small tit on the rear,and squared off at the rear. Some of the earlier and often better ones used good grade Ketland locks.

Stophel raised an interesting point as to so called "Virginia" rifles being a fantasy terminology. Reluctantly I have come to agree with that statement as far as early rifles go.To date I do not know of any published examples of pre federal period rifles which can be definitely identified as being "Virginia" made rifles. I am satisfied that some do exist and I can think of several with one or more being pre revolutionary.If I were asked to pick a very early "Virginia" rifle I would take No.124 of George Shumway's "Rifles of Colonial America" which by the way has a lock signed simply "Ketland" which I believe to be the earliest Ketland mark and is a very early English export lock from the 1740's through the 1760's.
Tom Patton

 

[longcruise]

have always been satisfied that the earlier one shown on Mel's web site was built about 1790-1800.

Not sure who "Mel" is? Are you refereing to the American Historic Services Rifle?

Thanks for adding your comments on Bogle.

 

[Okwaho]

"Mel" is Mel Hankla who owns the site.
Tom

 

[longcruise]

Thanks