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Simple question
- Thread starter cptleo1
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Do you mean to pull a slug from a 12 guage shell and load it in a muzzleloader?
A modern shotgun slug is made of harder lead than most muzzleloader bullets and roundballs, so expantion of the skirt (base) wouldn't be enough to seal the bore...
If the diameter of the slug was small enough to allow a cloth patched slug, you may get away with it, otherwise you would have to load an over-powder card & fiber wad between the powder and slug, then top with an over-shot card to keep the slug from moving forward until fired...
Having said that, there were slugs being used during the Civil War, so it can be done...
Rat
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I believe you can, but getting a tight fit might be a problem...you'd want it to fit tight enough that it didn't move off the powder. That would depend on the size of the shotgun slug, and the size of your bore.
Minnie balls will not work, the do require some spin.
Most smoothbores are .62 calibre and up, and will kill any game south of Alaska with a ball, and actually most Alaskan game too. Slugs are not needed. Shotgun slugs are not the best slugs in the slug world either.
Even the sub-.62" smoothies such as a .55" are very powerful weapons with ball, and again slugs are not needed. Really if one is interested in shooting slugs it should be done in a rifle...and then a good argument can be had about slug vs. ball.
I used to load round ball in my 12gauge cartridge shotguns, figuring the ball was "better" than the typical shotgun slug.
Can you tell that I'm trying to say..."why bother???"
:m2c:
Rat
Minnie balls will not work, the do require some spin.
Most smoothbores are .62 calibre and up, and will kill any game south of Alaska with a ball, and actually most Alaskan game too. Slugs are not needed. Shotgun slugs are not the best slugs in the slug world either.
Even the sub-.62" smoothies such as a .55" are very powerful weapons with ball, and again slugs are not needed. Really if one is interested in shooting slugs it should be done in a rifle...and then a good argument can be had about slug vs. ball.
I used to load round ball in my 12gauge cartridge shotguns, figuring the ball was "better" than the typical shotgun slug.
Can you tell that I'm trying to say..."why bother???"
:m2c:
Rat
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Mr. Cptleo,
On the other hand, Lee makes a 12ga shotgun slug (hollow base, I think) mold and you could cast them as soft as you may want. Just a thought.
Best Wishes
On the other hand, Lee makes a 12ga shotgun slug (hollow base, I think) mold and you could cast them as soft as you may want. Just a thought.
Best Wishes
Rat
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I'll just say again, that if it's a 12guage you are considering shooting shotgun slugs in, I believe a patched round ball is superior in every respect.
In cartridge guns, where there's no telling what bore size or choke the slug will be fired through, that's why that type of slug was invented....it will squeeze down through a choke, and starts out undersized to expand up to whatever bore size it's fired in.
Rat
In cartridge guns, where there's no telling what bore size or choke the slug will be fired through, that's why that type of slug was invented....it will squeeze down through a choke, and starts out undersized to expand up to whatever bore size it's fired in.
Rat
sherpadoug
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Using an elongated bullet with no rifling means you are likely to have the bullet tumbling end over end. Expect really bad accuracy! :m2c:
I can't wait to run a round ball through a whitetail with the new Tulle coming this summer. A .600" round ball isn't going to be persuaded much by mere flesh and bone! :winking:
I believe you get much better penetration with a RB than with old Foster type shotgun slugs. The center of mass is in the middle with a RB, where its all around the OD on the Foster slug. :imo:
Gregg
I believe you get much better penetration with a RB than with old Foster type shotgun slugs. The center of mass is in the middle with a RB, where its all around the OD on the Foster slug. :imo:
Gregg
I think that the slug would be a good choice for a rifled barrel, but for the smoothbore I don't see how it would match the performance of a roundball.
Shooting a rifled slug out of a smooth barrel may be an interesting experiment, but I don't think it would be as effective as a roundball. I think that the slug would have to be pure lead, too.
Shooting a rifled slug out of a smooth barrel may be an interesting experiment, but I don't think it would be as effective as a roundball. I think that the slug would have to be pure lead, too.
I tried some of the cast .12 ga slugs out of my double barrel. Other than a lot of extra recoil, and poor accuracy, they cost more. I can put 4 rd (2 from each barrel) in one ragged hole at 25 yds with the double and rd balls. Not with the slugs. About a 6 " group. Not any good at all in a smoothbore from what i experienced with them. :m2c:
:agree: With Rebel and others who've said "why bother?"
Having said that, I have a Winchester pump 12, smoothbore, with rifle sights which has punched out a six inch group at 100 yards with low cost Russian slugs.
It is often overlooked that the wad column is just as important to accuracy with shotgun slugs as is the slug itself. Ammo makers have put a lot of effort into improved slug performance in recent years and those factory loaded slugs are way better than they were twenty years ago.
I once fired a few of the Lyman wasp-waist slugs, the kind that look like a huge air rifle pellet, from a Centermark Fusil. Loading the slug inside a 20 ga. shotcup made a nice snug bore fit. Accuracy was about as good but no better than a patched ball, so again, why bother?
Having said that, I have a Winchester pump 12, smoothbore, with rifle sights which has punched out a six inch group at 100 yards with low cost Russian slugs.
It is often overlooked that the wad column is just as important to accuracy with shotgun slugs as is the slug itself. Ammo makers have put a lot of effort into improved slug performance in recent years and those factory loaded slugs are way better than they were twenty years ago.
I once fired a few of the Lyman wasp-waist slugs, the kind that look like a huge air rifle pellet, from a Centermark Fusil. Loading the slug inside a 20 ga. shotcup made a nice snug bore fit. Accuracy was about as good but no better than a patched ball, so again, why bother?
Java Man, I've taken several whitetail with my 62 cal . flinglock smoothbore. I use a .600 round ball with a .10 cotton patch with 65 grains of 3f Goex powder and prime with the same. Yes, I know many use 2f ... I use too as well but switched to 3f last year and am pleased. Which ever you use, 2 or 3f, you'll find that a well placed shot will make meat.
WV_Hillbilly
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Has anyone tried this...
I have used the Lee "drive key" 12 ga slug mould and find that they work quite well, but would like a heavier projectile. I am of the "bigger and heavier is always better" school of thought. So has anyone taken their 1oz mould and milled off the two projections that form the drive key in the base of the slug. This would make the resulting cast bullets look like a big flat based round nosed pistol bullet. I have estimated, (but am not sure) that it could add another 100gr or so to the weight of the finished slug. I'll gladly take a 25% increase in weight, even if I'd lose maybe 10% velocity. That would still give me approximately the same Kinetic Energy equivalent at the muzzle... however I would gain another 5.5 pts using the Taylor Knockout Factor. (51.38 versus 56.81)
If anyone has tried this I'd like to know how they shoot compared to the Lee mould as is, OR compared to the Lyman shocker style 12ga slug (which weighs about 510gr with the alloy I'm using). If you have velocity numbers or accuracy numbers I'd appreciate any info...
Thanks,
WV_Hillbilly
PS I do realize that ALL of these conical designs would work better out of a rifled bore also. I usually stick strictly to patched round ball PLUS my own special wad column in my smoothbore gun... but I have a rifled 12bore also!
I have used the Lee "drive key" 12 ga slug mould and find that they work quite well, but would like a heavier projectile. I am of the "bigger and heavier is always better" school of thought. So has anyone taken their 1oz mould and milled off the two projections that form the drive key in the base of the slug. This would make the resulting cast bullets look like a big flat based round nosed pistol bullet. I have estimated, (but am not sure) that it could add another 100gr or so to the weight of the finished slug. I'll gladly take a 25% increase in weight, even if I'd lose maybe 10% velocity. That would still give me approximately the same Kinetic Energy equivalent at the muzzle... however I would gain another 5.5 pts using the Taylor Knockout Factor. (51.38 versus 56.81)
If anyone has tried this I'd like to know how they shoot compared to the Lee mould as is, OR compared to the Lyman shocker style 12ga slug (which weighs about 510gr with the alloy I'm using). If you have velocity numbers or accuracy numbers I'd appreciate any info...
Thanks,
WV_Hillbilly
PS I do realize that ALL of these conical designs would work better out of a rifled bore also. I usually stick strictly to patched round ball PLUS my own special wad column in my smoothbore gun... but I have a rifled 12bore also!
sherpadoug
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:what:
Pardon getting off topic, but where did you get a rifled 12 gauge??? Sounds like even more fun than a blunderbuss! :thumbsup:
Cabela's sells the double barrel Kodiak rifle in .72 cal./.12 ga
Rat
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Hillbilly, ANY kind of slug wont work at all from a smoothie, much less "better" from a rifle bore, the 12 gauge rifled slugs only work because they are hollow all the way to the nose of the slug, just about. Kind of a "dart" effect.
Anyhow, methinks the best way to take advantage of the bigger is better theory is to just go to a bigger bore. If 12guage/.72" is not big enough, heck go to 11 or 10 bore, or even bigger.
However, methinks again that .62" and up will knock down anything with a round ball. Remember that a .72" ball weighs something in the 580+ grain range. A ten-guage ball must be in the 600 grain zone. Don't think slugs are needed, nor desireable. Roundballs offer a lot of advantages in their own right.
But I could be wrong!!
:imo: ::
Rat
Anyhow, methinks the best way to take advantage of the bigger is better theory is to just go to a bigger bore. If 12guage/.72" is not big enough, heck go to 11 or 10 bore, or even bigger.
However, methinks again that .62" and up will knock down anything with a round ball. Remember that a .72" ball weighs something in the 580+ grain range. A ten-guage ball must be in the 600 grain zone. Don't think slugs are needed, nor desireable. Roundballs offer a lot of advantages in their own right.
But I could be wrong!!
:imo: ::
Rat
The slugs for shotguns are not truly rifled, they merely have an annoying spiral pattern cast into them to reduce the amount of barrel to slug contact surface. and the Brenneke slugs use the weight up in the nose for a badminton birdie flight effect that IS ACCURATE. My 18inch improved cylinder 12guage with Federal load F131RS, 3 inch magnum 1-1.5 ounc slug can pop mason jar lids at 50 yards. more than good enough for hunting.
Rat
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Yeah...the "badminton" effect...ha ha yes that's how the Forester "rifled" slugs work. That's what i meant!
Indeed, those slugs out of modern guns can be very accurate. In a muzzle loader, I can see no reason to use them. They would have to be perfectly sized, would most likely require just the right wad combination, and still not penetrate like a roundball.
Roundballs are out of the question for modern guns, as you could not produce a load with a ball any bigger than the smallest anticipated choke size. However, the hand loader can run a patched ball down the barrel of a modern gun, and if it goes can then load it in a shell and use it. I've done that and they are very accurate.
Also found that loading patched .570" balls in a plastic shot cup, in a modern 12 gauge gun produced EXTREME accuracy.
ff:
Back to topic: shoot round balls in muzzle loading smoothbores.
Rat
Indeed, those slugs out of modern guns can be very accurate. In a muzzle loader, I can see no reason to use them. They would have to be perfectly sized, would most likely require just the right wad combination, and still not penetrate like a roundball.
Roundballs are out of the question for modern guns, as you could not produce a load with a ball any bigger than the smallest anticipated choke size. However, the hand loader can run a patched ball down the barrel of a modern gun, and if it goes can then load it in a shell and use it. I've done that and they are very accurate.
Also found that loading patched .570" balls in a plastic shot cup, in a modern 12 gauge gun produced EXTREME accuracy.
ff:Back to topic: shoot round balls in muzzle loading smoothbores.
Rat
