Single Shot Percussion Target Pistols

[jon math]

A week or so back I was seriously considering a target rifle when someone else made a posting about recoil, how happy I am that I read the post as it was a subject I was kind of neglecting to consider, and for medical reasons I need to keep a sharp eye on.
When I shoot for enjoyment I run very mellow loads and only run the charges up to sight in a hunting load. I can tolerate the few loads that requires and the one I expect to use when I hunt. Shooting a target rifle where I might let off half a hundred full power loads in a day more than likely would cost me several dozen IQ points. So I need to put serious target shooting with a rifle out of my mind.
In the smokeless world I shoot a Free Pistol in competition. These are basically unlimited pistols. As long as they are single shot .22 LR and iron sighted the rest is by and large unregulated. I’m considering a Pedersoli Lepage in .36 Cal. It seems pretty close to my Free Pistol with set trigger longish barrel, small caliber, and iron sights. The LePage seemed to enjoy a good following in competition circles a while back. Without going a custom route is this a good pistol choice, or has this pistol been eclipsed in recent years.

Thanks
Jon

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

My nephew has the Le Page. It is beautiful, but doesn’t fit me. I have two Thompson Center Patriot pistols in .45 cal. I haven’t had any complaints regarding those pistols. I know others have. The Patriot shoots great with a 20-24 grains of FFFG. You don’t want to overload...

Those pistols aren’t manufactured anymore, but you can still find them. :thumbsup:

 

[Hairy Clipper]

I, too, have a Patriot and while I have not shot it at the typical Olympic free pistol distances I can say it functions reliably, is very accurate at 50 yards and is a lot of fun to shoot. I have found using the hook on the trigger guard really stabilizes the gun in your hand. The sights are very bullseye target friendly.

 

[Darkgael]

Link
This gun was made by Bob Worthington at Greyhaven Arms.
Fire blued 12 inch barrel

 

[jon math]

I read and interesting article last night comparing the Lyman pistol in .50 caliber to the Le Page in .44 caliber. They were claiming at 25 yards both were shooting ¾ inch groups. I’m not sure I believe a pistol with fixed sights and no set trigger and a shorter barrel shooting patched round balls would out shoot or even equal an adjustable sighted set trigger bullet shooting target pistol for less than 1/3rd the price.
I figured the author might have worked for Lyman, but after reading the good reviews of the Patriot, a similar pistol, maybe I should give the Lyman a better look.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I walked into my LGS (local gun store) the other day and lo’ & behold there was a ”˜kit build’ single-shot percussion Trapper model by Traditions out sitting on the case, 50-caliber. So I asks ”˜how much’?

Reply - ”We just took it in, some old lady gave it to us ... “so I bought it for $50 ca$h ... could barely get the money out without drooling on the glass showcase.

For those that don’t know, they look akin to the T/C Patriot, though less refined. Took off from work early to hit the range, but did some online research beforehand and most raved about a 30-grn FFFg load.

Fired a fouling shot; as I normally do w/ BP arms. Then whilst using a 2-hand hold, my first 3-shots at 50’ all went into a 2” or less group, but way high over the 3” black bullseye I had put up on a white backer sheet. No problem, she just needs a taller front sight.

Moved the target to 25-yards ... 3-shots into 2-1/2”! Dayum, she’s a KEEPER! Imagine what she’ll do with some more range time and further load development! The set trigger worked amazingly well - for a Traditions - no less for any BP pistol I’ve fired.

My plans are to shoot ”˜her’ - now named ”˜Butt Ugly’ - at next Winter’s primitive muzzleloading/snowshoe biathlons, in the pistol division. I thought about cleaning up the kit build and refinishing her ... as the basic lines of the pistol are pretty good in basic design and that “saw handle” fits me really welll!

But it will be TOO MUCH FUN kicking azz with an ugly pistol, haha!

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Pete,
The stock on that pistol is beautiful ! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[azmntman]

I read and interesting article last night comparing the Lyman pistol in .50 caliber to the Le Page in .44 caliber. They were claiming at 25 yards both were shooting ¾ inch groups. I’m not sure I believe a pistol with fixed sights and no set trigger and a shorter barrel shooting patched round balls would out shoot or even equal an adjustable sighted set trigger bullet shooting target pistol for less than 1/3rd the price.
I figured the author might have worked for Lyman, but after reading the good reviews of the Patriot, a similar pistol, maybe I should give the Lyman a better look.

FWIW I once owned a CVA mnt pistol, .50 cal. I won ALOT of money betting I could hit a quarter at 25 yds. damg near never missed

 

[Zonie]

Flint62Smoothie

Before heading off to the primitive or the biathlon check with the people who make the rules.

Some of them have heartburn with "saw handle" pistols and don't allow them to compete.

 

[Hairy Clipper]

Even fixed sights can be moved so I would not let that stop me from buying a pistol that shoots excellent groups. The Patriots show up on gunbroker periodically and there was one on ebay yesterday with barrel and stock sold separately. It does not have a trigger like the Morini 84E, but, the set trigger on the Patriot is excellent on mine.

 

[FishDFly]

The Pedersoli LePage is a very nice/quality pistol. It does have a following in line matches, it is mainly used in the Pedersoli Kuchenreuter Match in sanctioned NMLRA matches.

The T/C Patriot and Lyman are considered “saw” handled pistols and not allowed in some NMLRA matches. I see folks who show up in Phoenix and Friendship and they cannot be used in the Traditional Agg. When going against other pistols, they do not fair well.

Calibers, most of the High Master shooters are shooting either 32 or 36 caliber with the nod going to the .32.

To be competitive, a person needs to be able to shoot a score of 95 at 25 yards and 85 at 50 yards, one handed.

The Grayhaven and Ingrham underhammer’s are quality pistols and I shoot Inghram.

For the most part, side lock pistols do not have a following in percussion matches, the falling side lock hammer is not conducive to good accuracy.

The dominant pistols are Yazel, Lightning, Lewis and Ten Ring, they are a bit modern though for some folks, but they are proven winners on the line and are dominant.

Given a choice with non-traditional pistols not being on the list, it would be the LePage and not even consider the Patriot or Lyman.

 

[JN01]

Another alternative is The Gun Works English pistol. I have one in flint. It is not fancy, but the workmanship is excellent and it is a good shooter. Price is reasonable for what you get, and turn around time is pretty quick. http://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?ProductID=121&do=detail&Cat2Option=yes

 

[FishDFly]

Another alternative is The Gun Works English pistol. I have one in flint. It is not fancy, but the workmanship is excellent and it is a good shooter. Price is reasonable for what you get, and turn around time is pretty quick.

I bought a pair in .36 and maple, nice workmanship, I had forgot about them.

Not sure how the grip would be judged, plow handle?

When I placed my order I was told six months to complete them, received them in a year.

Not sure if they can be shot in the Kentucky Agg., the sight requirements are very specific and they have to be inspected. There is nothing worse then traveling 1,000 miles and finding out your pistols do not qualify.

 

[meanmike8665]

Hi,
Both my wife and I have shot ours in the Traditional Agg in Phoenix. If you can find one a Hege is a good one choice if you seal the adjustable adjustment screw.

Michael

 

[azmntman]

nothing worse then traveling 1,000 miles and finding out your pistols do not qualify.

How bout finding you left the pistols on the bench in the garage? :haha:

 

[hawkeye2]

Over the past few years I have begun to see people describing grips like the Gun Works English pistol and the typical "Kentucky" pistol as a plow handle but the true plow handle grip is the type found on Colt cap & ball and single action revolvers.

 

[jon math]

I have to admit I don’t understand what a saw handle grip is. I look at the Le Page and the Lyman Plains pistol and the English pistol above and even a Patriot and I don’t see a difference in them. I could see orthopedic grips with thumb rests and palm shelves etc being an issue but why is a primitive shaped grip a problem on a muzzleloader?

 

[Zonie]

If you look at the typical handle on a hand saw you will notice that just above where your hand would be the handle comes back towards you.

This forms a nice, hand fitting shape that won't allow the handle to move downward, relative to your hand.

This is what a "saw handle" shape is talking about and some pistols grips have a small version of it.

With a pistol, during recoil the muzzle rises and if you are barely holding onto the grip it will slip down thru your hand. (No. I don't know why anyone would hold the gun that loosely.)

Anyway, someone, somewhere decided that having a feature somewhat like a saw handle that could keep the pistol from moving downward when it was shot should not be allowed for some NMLRA matches and some of the local clubs seemed to agree with them.

Notice on the Le Page grip there is no rearward projection above where your hand would be. That makes the pistol legal for pistol matches.

Note on some TC, Lyman and Traditions pistols there is a small hump that works like a saw handle. That makes them somewhat questionable for pistol matches in some places.

As for a Kentucky pistol, I don't recall seeing any of them that has a "saw handle" so they are OK for pistol matches too.

I hope this answers your question.

 

[John May]

Done That! It was only 50 miles away but enough to make it a real bind!

 

[jon math]

It does indeed, thank you! I just looked at the Trapper model mentioned, along with the Patriot and I see what you are referring to. What was not clear was the grip on the Lyman Plains pistol it seems to be a smooth curve with no beaver tail like projection, but I believe I miss read a post and was assuming it was being grouped with the other two pistols.