Slow motion flintlock firing sequence

[roundball]

Slow motion action video of flint lock firing...as it's downloading, it's way too slow...but subsequent views are faster...an interesting side item is that it shows the frizzen bouncing back and resting against the flint.

Powder ignition is VERY delayed, reminding me exactly of the delay problems I had with a bad batch of elephant powder I got back when I first tried flintlocks...imagine going to the range for your flintlock debut with the sort of ignition you see in this clip...but overall, I thought the video was still interesting so here's the URL, then scroll down to find the flintlock.

http://www.bsg-dornier.de/schiessen/index.html?/schiessen/filme/filme.htm

 

Every great once in a while my frizzen comes back on me as well. I think that frizzen is a poor sparker and the powder sure took a while to ignite. That lock looks almost like the Harpers Ferry pistol lock which I've heard suffers from crappy geometry as well. I like to think that if they used a high speed camera on good R.E. Davis or a Chambers built lock that it would be a quicker story. I used my track pad to slow the movie down frame for frame and those sparks of molten steel seemed to lay on the prime powder for a long time before it ignited (must be that nasty old ffffg stuff I used to use).

 

[RussB]

I think I detected two..pfift, pfift's, before the vooom, in the video.
Yes the frizzen did come back against the flint. I'm almost of the opinion, in this video, you would have heard the sear break, the hammer fall, and the "pfift's"...prior to the Vooom.

I would definately say this was a very slow ignition.

Perhaps the filming is off setting the actual "preceptual" timing of the ignition (maybe there is such a word as preceptual ??, don't wanta break Claudes new spell check) .

Russ

 

[Joel/Calgary]

I see three things in is video:

1) The cock geometry is really poor. The flints sits quite high high and it points somewhat high, and the cock stops quite early, before the frizzen starts to "flip over".

2) This is a classic example of a rebounding hammer (frizzen) that just eats flints. You can see chips as well as sparks when it comes back onto the edge of the flint. It could be less of a problem if the cock rotated farther - then the heel of the hammer (frizzen) would be hitting on the top of the flint, ideally, far enough back that the flint would not break.

3) They are apparently firing a prime only, and quite possibly a pan-full at that, for effect, so we can't tell when during the "flare" the main charge might have ignited. From the distribution of the powder residue on the barrel, it looks like they took several tries before they got the footage they wanted, or else this gun had been fired quite a lot that day (when the main charge ignites, it blows much of the flame and smoke away from the gun).

Joel

p.s. - Yeah, I'm being pedantic about lock terminology today.

 

[Tumblernotch]

:agree: That is a very poorly designed lock. The stop on the frizzen (or hammer if you go that way) seems to be too long and is not allowing it to open enough to cam past the spring. Like you said, the cock is not riding right and seems to be a little long for the size of lock. The frizzen (hammer) doesn't seem to be hardened enough either, the sparks are too red (not hot enough). The pan appears to be full (I keep my priming level with the touch hole or a hair lower). Years ago when I started shooting these I used to fill the pan so the powder wouldn't slosh around and get away from the hole. It took me a while to see the error of my ways. The powder seems to be of poor quality or damp. It took me a while (I'm on dial-up) to download this video, I had to play it quite a few times on Media Player, but I've saved it so I can show it to some of the other guys in the club. I wish I was on a faster hookup so I could watch the other videos on this site. Looks interesting, especially the buckshot coming straight for the camera.

 

[rich pierce]

It's a "basher" for sure. What I call a "self-knapping" flintlock. There are very few locks that have the "teat" on the frizzen correctly designed to cam properly and flip over with authority and stay there. I have to re-work the majority of locks particularly in this area.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Well, I told you guys wrong. I thought I downloaded the video. It doesn't save on my Media Player like other video I've gotten. You have to go online and re-download the video at the same sloooow speed that you do to begin with. While I was a messin' around tryin' to figure it out, I downloaded the buckshot sequence and watched it. I recommend it. It's not blackpowder, but you can now you can imagine what it looks like under all of that smoke. Apparently they set the camera up a distance off and zoom in. The shooter aims the gun off to the side a little so as not to blast the camera, but it's still close enough to see the shot coming out. Maybe I'll take my camera and do a flash sequence. Might find a way to speed up the lock time.

 

[Darkhorse]

Last Saturday on the History channel was a documentary (battlefield detectives) about the battle of Cowpens. In it they showed a slow motion shot of a flintlock firing. I didn't record it so I couldn't analyze it, but what got my attention at the time, before I read this post was how long it took for it to go off in slo mo. I thought at first it was an empty pan. But then after a bit it flashed then fired.
Maybe they are just slowing it all down an awful lot.

 

[Gary]

Colonial Williamsburg has an even slower (& better) film that shows sparks bouncing back out of the pan prior to the priming charge igniting.

 

[Tumblernotch]

That's possible, but looking at the one in this video, it looks like a powder train igniting. If you look close, it appears that the pan is full (to me anyway) and after the top layer of powder ignites it continues to burn downward longer than it should. I wish I could explain what I saw better than I am. I've seen other slow motion firings and this seems much slower although the movement of the cock seems pretty much the same. Another thing is the volume of smoke. If you load the pan with just enough to fire the gun, there's really not that much smoke. Every now and then, I like to take pictures of the fellers in our club just when they touch her off. You can tell who is overloading the pan. I may be seeing something that's not there. I'm a leetle teched in the head myself.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Well, I told you guys wrong. I thought I downloaded the video. It doesn't save on my Media Player like other video I've gotten. You have to go online and re-download the video at the same sloooow speed that you do to begin with. While I was a messin' around tryin' to figure it out, I downloaded the buckshot sequence and watched it. I recommend it. It's not blackpowder, but you can now you can imagine what it looks like under all of that smoke. Apparently they set the camera up a distance off and zoom in. The shooter aims the gun off to the side a little so as not to blast the camera, but it's still close enough to see the shot coming out. Maybe I'll take my camera and do a flash sequence. Might find a way to speed up the lock time.

Hi KanawhaRanger,

That video is stored in your temporary files on your computer. Presuming you are using a PC, go into your windows explorer (was file manager once upon a time), open up your Documents and Setting folder, then open your user name folder (should have your first name on it). Look for a folder that says temp or temporary internet files. Then just look inside that folder for a mpeg in the file type and odds are you will find it. It may have a number for a name, but it will be there. Just drag and drop it into another folder and rename it and you've saved it. Then you can double click on it or use the "file/open" menu from Media Player to run it. Otherwise, as soon as you clear your internet cache, it will disappear.

Hope this helps,

 

[muzlodr]

If it downloaded as it did on my computer, it's name will be "FILME"

 

[lanedh]

Some years ago in California somebody rigged up an aircraft gun camera using a rotating prism instead of a mechanical shutter. The result was a movie filmed at 7000 frames per minute. The results were projected at 16 frames per second.

Shots from a percussion rifle and a flintlock musket were set up so that the camera started when the cock/hammer started forward and stopped when the bullet cut a wire at the muzzle.

A number of shots were fired from each gun. The mean flint lock time was 75/1000 of a second, and the mean percussion lock time was about half of that at 37/1000 of a second. Main charge ignition time was deemed identical for both guns (a constant); the idea was to assess the respective lock times.

Ain't science wonderful??!! Sure was impressive to see the flintlock do its thing.

 

[Ohio Rusty]

Interesting video of the flintlock. I recognize the lock and pistol. It is one of those Rev War .69 caliber dragoon pistols that was put out in the 70's by Hawes, Dixie Gun Works, Japan, Hy-Hunter, etc. I see them occasionaly pop up on Auction arms. I have one of those pistols at home. What's interesting is the lock on that pistol works and does ignite the power charge. The lock on mine will never work due to it poorly made issues. My lock says 'TOWER' on the side on the rear of the lock,. Would anyone happen to knwo where I might find the same working lock to fit this pistol so I can make a shooter out of it ???? The barrel had been inspected by a gunsmith an said it would be safe to shoot.
Ohio Rusty

 

[Tumblernotch]

Thanks Twisted and Muzlodr. It took me a while to sort through the twists and turns. I'm using XP and there are more ways to get lost than there were on 3.1. Alas, the file is nowhere to be seen. It apparently didn't stay in Temp.Internet files very long. I might download it again later and try again. Thanks again for your help. I've printed the instructions you gave so I can access quicker. I thought I knew this machine better than that!

:master: