Small Cal.Deer

[MikeChapin]

In Wyoming the minimum caliber is .40 for big game. I don't know anyone who uses less than a 45 for deer these days.

About 15-20 years ago a friend of mine's wife dropped a muley doe with a 36. As I remember, it was about 50 yards with 50 gr 3F under a round ball. She was an experience hunter and placed the ball well. The deer went about 25-30 yards and piled up.

It can be done but I would not recommend it. The gamewardens might get a little testy about it.

 

[silverfox]

Texlongshot. I never did find the reg about .45 cal. However I was on the survey when Texas first started muzzleloading hunting and we had them put .45 as a minimun cal at that time.
This year I hunted on public land and the wardens were asked about cal. and they said nothing in the regs about cal. and as stated before the definition is load from the muzzle only
Fox :thumbsup:

 

[brayhaven]

I've killed a number of hogs up to 250# with a 36 rb & 45 gr 3F here in N. FL. I consider them more difficult to kill than a deer, but, as has been pointed out here, the .36 is not legal for deer (it is for hogs here). One place I hunt small game has a max cal of .40 during small game hunts and hogs are legal game. I also wouldn't hesitate to shoot one with my .32's
Greg

 

[Hamourkiller]

The regulation TXLongshot was showing us is for PUBLIC HUNTING LANDS ONLY. The special regulation is spelled out in the booklet that shows the various WMA's & National forests open to the public under the PUBLIC HUNTING LANDS PROGRAM. Private lands and some Federal REFUGE lands are not under the "Special" restrictions.

Maybe next year TPWD will issue a lawyer with these ever increasing "Special Rules" :shake:

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

I thought I had replied to this last evening, but apparently it must not have worked (I had clicked on ADD POST, and then my ISP dropped out on me) Oh Well! Might as well blow some of my hot air into this little topic.

Anyway, as far as I'm aware, West Virginia still has a minimum caliber for muzzleloading whitetaile deer season--which is .38 caliber. Don't ask if that is ball diameter or bore size, as I've never been able to find anyone that would confirm it.

I once thought that choice was a little odd, since the only .38 caliber guns would be something custom made, BUT a good ol' timer friend of mine told me that there were a good many "Appalachian style" rifles built in the early part of the 20th century and the .38 cal decision was in deference to those particular guns. These were relatively crude, very plain rifles and not made any bigger than what was supposedly needed to kill whitetail deer and black bear.

Is that just a rumour or what? I do not know--but it sounds as reasonable an explanation as any that I've heard. Most West Virginian "hillbillies" like myself tend to keep a gun that works well and anything that does NOT work well gets quickly sold or traded off. It's just the kind of mentality of the area to be frugal and mindful stewards of their few prized posessions. Hardly anything gets wasted that way, and "only enough, is good enough" for the majority of things.

I myself, would use a .40cal gun on deer if I got the typical shots at deer (usually closer than 35 yds). I'm not too keen on anything less than a .50 with a heavy conical for bear, though I would use a fast twist .45 with a very heavy and long conical if that was all I had. A .32cal if fine for squirrel and rabiit and varmints, and a .36cal OK for slightly larger stuff, like coyote (and anything in that size range), but I wouldn't use either caliber on deer unless it was a head shot... but since both are not legal it's a moot point.

The .22 Magnum is used by most farmers who have crop damage permits and probably kills as many deer as some of the larger centerfires during season. Just makes you wonder though...

ALWAYS use a big enough gun and shoot safely!
WV_Hillbilly

Merry Christmas and a Happy Prosperous New Year!

 

[sduve]

The gamewardens might get a little testy about it.

If legal, why would a wildlife officer care? Automobiles would probably wound more deer than a .40 cal.

 

[410-er]

I wanted to find out if other states allowed this small cal.'s for deer and in the past before rules were detailed if anyone ever did[url] it.In[/url] Pa. 45 and over for deer.Have a 50 and 54 that gets used for deer and maybe someday might have to pick up a 45.The 32 and 36 I have recently picked up will get used for small game.Rabbits and squirrels with the 32 and chucks with the 36.Good off season practic.Pa. won't let you use 45 and up for small game.

 

[sduve]

I just received my .40 cal GM barrel for my Renegade and plan on giving it a roundball workout next week on deer. I will be using Pyro P starting at 50 gr.

 

[gmww]

I've been following this post since it came out. Please, don't take what I'm about to say as any kind of insult or attack as that is not my purpose.

I was brought up to believe if you want to hunt you need to respect the game your hunting by making sure you have more than enough gun to kill it humanely.

I hope no one is really serious about using small calib. like .32 or .36 on deer? I suspect that the majority of states have a .40+ Cal. min. for a very good reason. Clean kills.

I feel we need to keep our kills clean and quick as possible. Or we'll end up with a bunch of wounded/dead animals with complaint from the anti-hunting crowds on how cruel it is to use ML on game.

On my last hunting trip I had a similar discussion with the guide who was complaining about how they had problems with .50 cal round balls not killing Mule deer. (I was using .440 round balls for my hunt.) He was not talking clients not hitting the animals correctly but rather the guides who were hunting for personal game. They were in a RB only area and commented to the local game warden about how they had wounded animals lost despite percieved good hits.

They were told by the game warden that this was becoming a common complaint and they were going to look into other options for the future. Needless to say this could be a problem for ML in the future.

To look at the ballistics of a .32 cal. you will see that the ballistics on the RB is weak.

The hottest load listed in Lyman for a .32 RB is:

70 gr., Goex, 3F, 2273 ft/sec at barrel, 516 ft/lbs at barrel, 998 ft/sec at 100 yards, 99 ft/lbs at 100 yrds. That's 99 ft/lbs at 100 yards.

In .36 cal. a 125 grn, Buffalo Conical with 70 grns, Goex, 3F, travels 1943 ft/sec at the barrel. At 100 yards it has 380 ft/lbs. of energy. Generally 500 ft/lbs is used as a min. for deer to be killed cleanly. Sure you can kill with less ft/lbs. but why would you want to? It will probably be illegal to do so anyways with .32 or .36 cal.

This isn't fishing where you get credit for catching a fish on light line. A fish breaks a light line it lives. Wound a deer with a light calib. and it suffers. As hunters we need to consider how ethical it would be.

To me the only reason I'd ever consider using a small calib such as .32 or the .36 on deer would be for survival. This has been a interesting thread for "what if" purposes.

Anyways, I'll get off my internet soap box. Hope you all got your animals and had a good time in the field doing it. :winking:

 

[Runner]

Well, of the last four deer I hit with a 50 roundball, one went close to 300 pounds. Three of the four fell within forty yards with two dropping in their tracks. The almost 300 pound buck went about 200 yards, but that was shot placement, not bullet. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 50 caliber roundball on anything smaller than elk, and they have killed a lot of elk also. I grew up country and was around country folks. The numbers of deer cleanly dispatched with one shot out of a 22 short single shot rifle over the years would likely stagger you. I have never done so, and since it is illegal, I never will, but my 36 is fully capable of cleanly harvesting whitetails. Now, I lean towards close shots mostly and plan to kill a couple next year at close range with a patched .69 ball. I am not interested in hunting deer with my 36. That does not change it's capabilities at all. In this state, a 25 ACP is legal for deer but a 36 isn't. Your roundball stories always sound strange to me since I normally hunt deer with nothing else. Shots outside their useful range or poor placement may make for lost game, but that is with any bullet.

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Idaho's rules on calibers reads as follows:

In any hunt, including general any-weapon seasons and short-range hunts, it is unlawful to pursue or kill big game animals: With any muzzleloading rifle or musket that is less than .45 caliber for deer, antelope, or mountain lion: or is less than .50 caliber for elk, moose, bighorn sheep, mountain goat, or black bear. 209 primers and scopes are unlawful....not allowed.
Jim in Idaho

 

[8905c]

I have a friend that hunted deer for several years with a .32 ml rifle. He didn't hunt deer with his .32 to prove a point, he did it because the .32 was the only ml rifle he had at the time. The rifle was an old original that he did a considerable amount of work on to get it in shooting order. He harvested several deer with the old rifle, some nice size bucks. However, he limited the range of his shots, and placed his shots well. As money became available, he purchased the parts and built his own .45 flintlock. Once the .45 was completed, he retired the .32 from deer hunting.

 

[MikeChapin]

The gamewardens might get a little testy about it.

If legal, why would a wildlife officer care? Automobiles would probably wound more deer than a .40 cal.

It wasn't legal, the .36 was too small. The statute of limitations have run out for that particular deer. If she had used a .40, which she did later, all would have been fine.

 

[Runner]

People seem to forget things like the 25/35, the 30/30, and the 32/40. They stacked up truckloads of deer, even back when they were loaded with black. They are all still legal to hunt deer with in this state also.

 

[Lonegun1894]

the .30-30 you mention was the first factory smokeless round. And was never factory loaded with BP. As far as reloaders, well, no comment there as i have loaded several smokeless rounds with BP just to see how they'd perform. As to the .25 and .32, those were both "conicals", and as such., wouldnt that make up somewhat for size as it tends to do in larger caliber weapons? Not trying to start an argumant, just looking for info and throwing out thoughts, so anyone with better knowledge, please dont hesistate to edumacate me. Thanks

 

[Runner]

We have not been discussing bullets really, altho one person listed a maxiball load I think. No one said you had to use roundball.
This is all a discussion to me. I hunt squirrels and small game with my 36. Even with the 30 grain PBR load, a coyote doesn't want to show himself inside 75 yards when I am out with it. It is potentially one of the most flexible and useful guns there is. With the roundball you have small and medium game. With the 12x grain Maxiball, you have a round easily capable of deer sized game at the same ranges the 45 roundball is used. Only the smoothbores are more flexible, and they are no where near as frugal on powder and shot. Packing up enough goodies to feed the 12 guage on a six month trip where it would be the survival gun would be heavy. The 36 would be easy. The 12 guage with a prb does have a thump factor the 36 does not have tho!

 

[brubincam]

maybe the guides need to do a better job of tracking,if they shot it with a 50 cal ball it went down SOMEWHERE...

 

[sduve]

The gamewardens might get a little testy about it.

If legal, why would a wildlife officer care? Automobiles would probably wound more deer than a .40 cal.

It wasn't legal, the .36 was too small. The statute of limitations have run out for that particular deer. If she had used a .40, which she did later, all would have been fine.

My bad. I misread your statement. I see why a gamewarden would be displeased. It is nice to see these posts and past experiences concerning non-modern deer loads.

 

[riarcher]

I've heard all sorts of stories, about all sorts of things in my over half a decade lifespan.
"Could a .32, .36, .38, .40 be used for deer?" I've firmly come to the idea that "Could?" surely.
"Reliably?" - not really. It's all about the "shock value". The .32 just simply doesn't have the shock. And if it passes past bone, thru soft meat, not only would the "shock" be minimil, you'll not get any expansion for a bleed out either.
Remember, People live with 30-06, 8mm, and other higher speed (greater shock) rounds in them as we speak.
Food for thought? :hmm:

 

[howdydoit]

maybe the guides need to do a better job of tracking,if they shot it with a 50 cal ball it went down SOMEWHERE...

Yes and when shot placement is concerned "who is doing the hunting" I mean I watch the videos and when you buy a hunt thats what you get. the buyer almost always becomes just a trigger man and on the last day of his thousands of dollar hunt they shoot at anything that is in even at a posible range.