Smallbore Muzzleloaders

[broken arrow]

Hi all,
Is anybody doing any smallbore work? Something like .20 caliber, or roundabouts?
Just something I'd like to play around with and wondering if I'm the only one.
What is everyones opinion on rate of twist for these little smokers?
Thanks

 

[Dave Poss]

If you went .177 you could use BBs or lead pellets as projectiles and a coathanger as a ramrod! I had one...it was called a RED RYDER :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:seriously though, I did see where someone reproduced Lewis and Clarks "air" gun...can't remember who it was though. Looked cool with an air tank under the stock. As far as a real black powder spittin' gun,I think the smallest I ever saw was a 28 cal. at an antique show. I'm sure some of the smart people here know a barrel maker who would probably make any cal.you desired.Just curious...why would you want something smaller than a .30 or .32 ?????.....overrun with shrews??? :hmm:

 

[bulletman]

A BB black powder gun, DAANG can you imagine how long a can of powder would last ? :hmm:

 

[Zonie]

At last! A real good use for FFFFg!! :: ::

 

[BrownBear]

Years ago an outfit (don't remember the name) made a neat little rifle that used lead BB's (22 caliber, as I recall, a plain old green stickum cap (from cap guns) for ignition, and a very small charge of powder. I shot one a friend had, but the details are fuzzy now. I do remember it was a real hoot to shoot and flattened cottontails with head shots. Kinda polite on the ears, too.

 

[broken arrow]

Longknife,
No shrews, just more time than brains I guess.
And I was also thinking of how long a tin of powder would last.
I have a bunch of .22 barrel pieces. I have gone the 12g. flare insert route that shoots a .22 ball with a 209 primer, fun to play with. Barrel is a bit short at 1.5 inches.
Anyone have any ideas on twist rate for a .22 muzzleloader? I think these pieces are around a 1 in 10 twist. That should be OK with the low powder charges? Maybe a patched .177 lead ball (the patch would weigh more than the ball)?
OK, the old noggin is startin to go too far with this.

 

[arilar]

As far as a real black powder spittin' gun,I think the smallest I ever saw was a 28 cal. at an antique show.

Interesting :hmm:.I just measured my original Jukkasj

 

[sebago]

Hmmmm, the original mouse gun........... :crackup:

 

[madstone]

Brokenarrow,
One problem I anticipate is a good ramrod? Hichory this thin would inevitably break? Fouling builds up badly, too, I'll wager if you approach 22 size.
There is a formula, "out there" , for calculating the proper twist for any size ball and velocity. Some of these guys probably have it memorized. 1-10 in. would be "overstabilized" for a ball at ML velocities?
With a .223 bore and a 0.010 patch use 0.200 or with 20 thousandths patch perhaps a 177bb?
You can see the problems, here, can't you. Sure it can be done, has been done, but... :m2c:

 

[Dave Poss]

ARILAR....how about posting a picture. I'd love to see your rifle. sounds interesting. :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

Using the old bore size minus .010 for ball size would make the ball about .210 diameter.
That would weigh 13.9 grains making the rifle a 503 bore!

Your patches will be .540 diameter so you could use a 9/16 diameter punch for them or just cut 17/32 squares. ::

Using a powder charge of 75% of the ball weight "for hunting" would make 10.5 grains a hot load.

It would probably be good enough to go up against that vicious RATTUS RATTUS also known as the Roof Rat! :: ::

 

[flintkeeper]

Arilar, do you, by any chance, have a photo of the gun?
I am sure, we all would love to see it. Thanks! eace:

 

[arilar]

This rifle has on the stock the year 1721 where character seven and two are placed reversed. Also a pentagram in the form of a star is placed beside the year. This was to protect from witchcraft. This type of snaphaunce-rifles had calibers between 0.20-0.36. Were used for hunting "small-game", fox, hare, capercailzie, squirrel et.c.
I have publiced an article on this rifle with photos in a small Swedish muzzleshooting magazine but I dont have equipment to give you digitalpictures :cry:
However, there is to be found a rather similar repro-rifle at www.musketandrifle.nu. Its made by gunsmith Magnus Wiberg. I am glad you take interest in this unusual but fantastic old juvel ::
ARILAR :thumbsup:

 

[broken arrow]

Maybe it's just me, but this project is sounding more and more interesting with every post.

I may start with a small pistol, 6 inch barrel, brass rammer, etc. and see how it goes.

Thanks for the loading data, too.

 

[Dave Poss]

checked out Wiberg's site....beautiful workmanship! Just need to make sure of terminology...let's see-12 mm is about a 40cal. right? Maybe what we have here is a "failure to communicate!" (cool hand Luke) ....MM, cal.,gauge. Too much for my old mind! ::

 

[arilar]

I will try to explain. The scandinavian snaphaunce huntingrifle has been used under a period of maybe 250 years. from the start flintsnaphaunce and later percussionstyle snaphaunce. The old Jukkasj

 

[Zonie]

Longknife, 12 mm is .477.
If you have one of those 5 dollar battary powered calculators just multiply the mm by .04 a 10 mm would be 10 X .040 = .40. 8mm would be 8 X .040 = .32 and so on.
While that's not exact, it's close enough for government work. ::

(For the perfectionests, the better value is mm X .03975 = Inches)

 

[Liver eatin’ Johnson]

This one shoots BB's but it's a smoothbore :winking:

 

[madstone]

Beautiful sliding patchbox. What kind of ramrod? Always metal?

 

[broken arrow]

I saw, in the Flaydermans Guide last night, an underhammer in .18 cal. with a 2 inch barrel. So I guess there was some small stuff around "in the good ole days".

Now if I just copied that cannon barrel and fit it to a pistol stock...