Smallest caliber

[Claude Mathis]

What would be the smallest caliber of a smoothbore pistol, that at several dozens yard would pack enough punch to be considered a weapon?

Why?

 

[jethro224]

I'll go another way at this. If it makes me bleed I would call it a weapon and respond likewise.
Fox :thumbsup:

I agree!

 

[lyuv]

My goal is to build a percussion pistol, small as possible. Obviously it's not for practical reasons. For that I have plenty of modern guns. It's for interest and joy which is probably why most of you are here.

However, I"m not looking for mere functionality, but to make a gun that WOULD be fit to serve for self defence, which probably translates to "being able to seriously injure a man". NOT the "best", but the "least acceptable".

I"m talking about a PISTOL, shooting ROUND ball.

 

[paulvallandigham]

First, its already been done. I believe the smallest working pistol was about the size of a tie-bar, and shot a .10 diameter ball in front of 1 grain of powder. Someone today may be able to make something smaller, with the kind of micro tooling now available, but you did ask about a Pistol, and that suggests something that can actually be manipulated with the hands or fingers.

My father owned one of the things, available back in the 1920s, and he eventually made a tie clasp out of it, and often wore it to work. Men were always surprised, when they noticed his pistol tie clasp, when he showed them the pistol was a working model!

 

[Blizzard of '93]

Maybe something that would shoot a buckshot ball then? Seems that #4 buck is .25 dia. But at 'several yards' would not have much 'punch' to it. Depends on powder charge, but short barrel would not use much anyways. Likely less energy than a .22 short.

 

[Mad Monk]

Paul,

There is more than 1 way to stop an assailant.

With a small caliber such as the .22 you go for shot placement. Close range you go for joints. From experience! Shoulder joints don't work when hit with a .22 right in the joint. Nor will an elbow.

I used to laugh at the little self-defense bp guns from the 1800's. That is until I used a little short-barreled .22 to save my hide one night in a neighbor's house when I sort of blundered into the middle of a burglary. As with deer hunting, shot placement is critical.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Mad Monk: Now you are giving away all the secrets!

I used a .22 revolver with a magnum cylinder in place for just that reason. With no recoil, but lots of noise and fire, I could pick my spot to shoot. The longest distance in the place I was living was 30 feet( 10 yds.). At that range, I could shoot the guys eye out, even if he was holding someone hostage in front of him.

Oh, I learned many many years ago about myself that I don't get nervous during a crisis. I do that afterwords. I think it came from being a young musician playing in front of crowds when I was very young and didn't know I was suppose to be scared. That, and my cold blooded conviction that I am not going to be a victim ever again.

I have been shot at, threatened more times than I want to remember, and I have fired back in one incident. I know what I am like in those kind of situations, so I don't worry about whether I can do some fine shooting, as others do. I also have trained myself to put them into the torso very fast just like police officers and others are trained to do.

A small caliber gun, provided it fits your hand so that you have good control, can be a very effective defense weapon. But, given any choice, I would rather have my .45s.

 

[Tinker2]

I had a smooth bore muzzleloading pistol that was made
to shoot steel BB’s. It would go through a 1” pine board.


Tinker2

 

[Tinker2]

First, its already been done. I believe the smallest working pistol was about the size of a tie-bar, and shot a .10 diameter ball in front of 1 grain of powder.

Paul

You talking about the 2mm pinfire guns?
The old adds in the 60’s said that they would shoot
through 700 pages of the phone book. Not the blanks
naturally but the live ammo. ??[url] http://home.comcast.net/~boburso/piccolo/[/url]


Tinker2

 

[tg]

I would not consider a smoothbore pistol a good choice for self defense, if I had to use one it would be a muliple barrel job of some kind of arond 45 cal as this is a close range gun, I used to have a .31 pocket pistol colt in the drawer beside the bed and never felt undergunned in the event of home intrusion by a bad guy or two, the .36 navy was usually close by as well, since I quit pistol shooting I have found a 12 gauge 20" dbl. barreled coach gun (cartridge)loaded with buckshot with a flashlight attatched under the barrels to be more to my likeing.

 

[Rebel]

Good choice except for the buckshot. At the range you would be shooting someone with it #4 or #6 would take them down fine and you wouldn't have to worry about stray buckshot going through walls and hitting someone else.

 

[Slamfire]

Maybe something that would shoot a buckshot ball then? Seems that #4 buck is .25 dia. But at 'several yards' would not have much 'punch' to it. Depends on powder charge, but short barrel would not use much anyways. Likely less energy than a .22 short.

No. 4 American Standard Buckshot is 0.24". It was the ball used for the Buffalo childs blackpowder rifle with a long forcing cone and a .22 caliber bore.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Tinker: I think you have it. One of the guns listed on the page as being from Austria looks like the gun dad had. He never had any shells for it, and didn't know it was a pinfire. He later collected cartridges and acquired some pinfire cartridges for his collection, but never anything as small as this. He would have been thrilled to have found any ammo, and I am sure he would have fired a couple of rounds out of the gun just to see what they could do. The only thing he thought the gun was ever made to fire was some kind of blank cartridge.

Thanks for finding that. I can't wait to share that with my brother. In fact, he may have that trinket, now that I am thinking of it.

Paul

 

[renovato]

Completely correct. There is no such thing as "knockdown" power. Anything that has enough force to knock someone down will also knock the shooter down. Newton's law and all that.

 

[renovato]

Colt .45 acp ! Best ever! Nothing less!

The only smoothbore .45 ACP I recall is the Liberator pistol of WWII. I don't imagine it was accurate enough to be used at the several dozen yards the original posted asked about though. I'm not sure the original 1911 was either! :rotf:

For self defense shooting a round ball, I don't want anything smaller than .45. Come to think of it, I don't want anything smaller in modern guns either.

 

[CrackStock]

Well, this would depend on what you mean.

Are we thinking leagally, historically or theoretically?

Are we contemplating using a gun for self defense or are we possibly on the receiving end?

The .36 cal cap and balls were used fairly often for many years, but I would prefer more frontal mass and bullet weight.

CS

 

[Tinker2]

Paul

Thanks for finding that. I can't wait to share that with my brother. In fact, he may have that trinket, now that I am thinking of it.

If you find it, I would send you a couple of 2mm blanks if
you want. Some of the 2mm guns were made for the blanks
only and not for live ammo.




Tinker2