Smoothbore Loads

[Einsiedler]

Geez, all I was doing by patching the ball was trying to keep it from rolling out the end of my barrel. I’m stingee with my wasp nest.

 

[Ketchakah]

Sounds good friends,
I have not tried the roughed ball as yet. Was curious as to if it was worth anything. I do understand the dimpled golf ball theory, but there is a different dynamic involved.
Thank you all for the opinions.

" I’m stingee with my wasp nest. " So are the wasps i would recon LOL

 

[George]

The roughing it, or chewedballs is known from the past.

Is there primary documentation for that that you can cite?

Spence

 

[tenngun]

A British officer refers Americans using chewed balls during ARW, his name was Walter or Wallace I think he was a marine. He states the cause was to increase infection rates.
I moved in to a town house in 2012 due to my wife’s health and had to down size my library so I don’t have the book handy. It was a work on Britnavy during the war finds from forts display some. Often thought tone. ‘Bite the bullet’ but seem in too large of numbers.

 

[George]

My interest in the chewed ball comment was that it seemed to be implying that the old boys used rough/chewed balls to increase accuracy, and I don't believe that is the case. I have several items mentioning chewed balls from the period, but they all are concerned with "poisoning" the balls or otherwise increasing the injury they cause.

“For though the law of arms doth bar
The use of venom’d shot in war,
Yet by the nauseous smell, and noisom,
Their case-shot favor strong of poison,
And doubtless have been chew’d with teeth
Of some that had a stinking breath,”
“Hudibras”, in _A complete, Edition of the Poets of Great Briton_, Volume the Fifth, Robert Anderson 1795

The Guernsey had sixteen Men kill’d, and three wounded; among which was the Lieutenant, who died the same Day of a Wound he reciev’d in his Thigh, with a Musket Ball chew’d, which made the Wound mortal.”
The Voyages Dangerous Adventures and Imminent Escapes of Capt. Rich. Falconer 1784

“This day the Lord Fairfax sent a Trumpet, complaining of chew’d and poisoned bullets being fired from the Town, and threatening to give no Quarter if that Practice was allow’d…”
A Tour thro’ the whole Island of Great Britain, divided into Circuits or Journeys. By a Gentleman 1724

“Bullet chew’d, why does it wound incurably”
Q. What’s the reason that a Wound in any part of the body by a gnawn or chew’d bullet, proves incurable?
A. If it be really so, the reason may be, because the roughness of the Bullet, and its many unequal edges tare and Jag the Flesh in such a manner, that ‘tis impossible it should ever close again, or admit of any Cure besides Amputation.”
The Athenian oracle, an entire collection of all the valuable questions and answers in the Old Athenian Murcuries. Printed for Andrew Bell, Cornhil 1706

Spence

 

[Toklo Etee]

Spence,
"Now the hot work begins- The guns are firing; the chewed bullets flying"
This small excerpt is taken from James Adair in History of the American Indians. As a trader involved in the Southern Deerskin trade he observed a great deal in regards to the behavior of the Southern tribes...Chickasaw, Creek, ect.
In this case he is describing what happens when two hostile nation's encounter each other in the woods circa 1750s

 

[Toklo Etee]

It was this quote along with another that described using Spanish Moss for wadding by the Indians of Georgia in their trade guns that lead me to develop a load for my Carolina gun. 65 grains of fffg.....a wad of Spanish Moss. .595 chewed ball. My gun has a .600 bore so the chrwed ball is a interference fit but easily thumb started.....the accuracy is as good as a patched ball without having to deal with cloth

 

[George]

Thanks for the Adair reference.

Loading as you describe could be another reason for chewing a ball, just to make it a snug fit in the bore without a patch.

Spence

 

[Herman Karl]

This is all very true friends.
I remember this same conversation on several forums, and it always tends to end the same.
Many people tend to think they have discovered something new. There is little that is new inside of traditional stuff and has not been thought of before. I would imagine anything we can think of has been done at some point.

I would think, that as rifles became increasingly common, those with SBs would watch the loading procedure and try the same thing. I know I did, way before i read anything on internet forums. But i'm an experimenter. Most innovations started with some sort of example that sparked an idea. Remind me to tell you about loading blocks sometime.. The Caveat is not using a modern "example"

Not everything was documented. Its quite possible that people found no value in patching a SB and as such lost interest. We must bear in mind, that with a few exceptions, Most people regarded FLs as a tool and did not revolve their lives around talking about them. They did what worked for them and forgot about it.

I have seemed to notice a bit of difference with a patched ball, but not enough to use it in common day to day shooting. I admit i do little competition stuff, so really not been too motivated, and since, have gone to buckshot pretty much.

Documents are funny stuff. Don't fall into that pit. Not many documents about wrapping the handle of a hammer with grip tape either, but we know it was commonly done before rubber handles.

This said... What do you all think about the theory of "roughing" the ball for accuracy ? That is making dimples on it like a golf ball. This i have NOT tried. (Did Golf balls of 1700s have dimples ?)

((Update))
Apparently not....http://www.scottishgolfhistory.org/origin-of-golf-terms/golf-ball-feathery-gutty-haskell/

Which lends back to the question ? Roughing a ball for accuracy or distance ?

Several years ago a friend and I tested smooth and roughed balls to determine if there was a difference in accuracy. We published the results in Muzzleloader, "Do Dimples Make a Difference?". I've attached the article.

 

[George]

Interesting article, thanks for posting.

Can you tell me how you loaded the smoothbore? PRB? Overshot wads, and if so, what kind?

Spence

 

[Herman Karl]

I used a patch lubricated with Wonder Lube. I believe the thickness was 0.010. The same thickness was used for all types of ball.

 

[George]

PRB only, no wads, I assume.

Spence

 

[Herman Karl]

Yes. I found such little difference that I didn't think more testing was warranted. But you might give it a try. I've attached the appendices to the article that are on the Muzzleloader website.

 

[George]

I'm interested in comparing results shooting PRB with and without overpowder wads in a smoothbore. I've done some very limited shooting at 100 yards with wads, but not without, so am pleased to see your results without.

Spence

 

[Herman Karl]

As I'm sure you know, individual guns will handle the same load differently. Have fun testing.

 

[hanshi]

I can't speculate how they loaded back in the day. But I can say is that absence of proof is not proof of absence.

 

[tenngun]

I would bet that any one who ever was around rifleman had at least tried a patch in his smoothie. I would bet that anyone with a smooth rifle or who had lost his rifle and had to use a smooth bore would have patched the ball. However with out it being written down you can’t prove it, so I would kick it around over a fire and jug but it remains speculation.