Smoothbore sight-in trouble/solution

[Slowpoke]

Recently built a smoothbore with a 54 cal/50 inch barrel and English round face lock. Went to the range this weekend and was absolutely spraying the balls in a 6 inch circle all around the 10 ring at 25 yard. High, Low, Left Right.... it was horrible...

.520 ball
90g 2f
.010 patch
damp patch
Benched

After about 30 shots (changing things around powder/patch/etc) I was seriously thinking about wrapping it around a tree and calling Ed Rayl's family lineage into question. Then I made a very small change that made all the difference in the world. I started holding the gun very tight to my shoulder.... I mean really pulling it tight in there.

The only thing I can think of is the gun being so light and that big English lock hitting the frizzen hard was causing the gun to shake around or something. After I started pulling it into my shoulder, 5 shots cut a nice round hole at 25y and at 50y a nice 4 inch group.

Anyone else experienced this phenomenon with a light gun and a big lock or has the heat finally done me in.....

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Try a.015"-.018" patch--.010" patches shoud be left uncut and used as emergency toilet paper. They are just too thin for anything else. A better lube might help, too. A 90 grain powder charge is serious overkill, too. 60-70 grains is more like it. For starters, I'd go with a .015" patch and 60 grains of powder.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Why such a small diameter Ball? I would think you would do better with a .020 Patch, and even using a .530" ball. The powder charge seems rather stiff to me, also. This is ONLY a .54 diameter smoothbore. I don't use 90 grains in my .62" diameter Fowler.

Back that load down to 50 grains, and at the very least, try using thicker patches. Have you inspected the spent patches for those shots that went everywhere? Are they burned, or torn? I ask only because .010" patches almost never hold up in either a long barreled gun, or with any length barrel using more than 70 grains of powder.

If you are not used to shooting flintlocks, give yourself some time shooting modest loads to learn NOT to flinch when the flashpan ignites. Shoot off the bench, and NOT off-hand, until you are sure your brain is ignoring the flash, and you aren't flinching.

The only reason I can think that your gun began shooting tighter groups, when you pulled the gun into your shoulder, is that you were NOT allowing a "flinch" to move the sights in relation to the target, by doing so. AND, the heavy recoil from this particular load was not smacking you in the face as badly.

You are not shooting a .22 rimfire rifle. It does help to put the muscles in your shoulders into an isometric tension to help control the gun's movement at firing, to reduce felt recoil. ( see my article on Controlling Heavy Recoil, posted on the forum, under Member Resources, under "Articles".)

 

[Roy]

I have noticed that some locks will cause a jolt. I have in the plans a light 20 that I imagine I could run into the same problems.. Going to use Chambers early Ketland on it.. long throw.
As far as the .520 ball that is what I would be using too for a .54 smooth, but I would possibly try a bit thicker patch. For just punchin paper you could back off on the powder a bit too. :v

 

[Slowpoke]

barrel is .540, If I use a thicker patch it's very difficult to load. .520 + .020 patch = .560 trying to get in there. The .010 patch was fine, frayed around the edges but that is to be expected... no burn through or holes. I think, I could go up a little bit on the patch... maybe something in the middle of .010 and .015.
The 90g of 2F was a little over kill for 25y but that's what I shoot out of my 54cal rifle so that's just a starting point. As a hunting load I can see my final load betweening between 80-90g. Punching paper, 60g would be about right.

This "hammer-shock" thing was somehting new for me.

 

[Robby]

Slopoke, I put that big, Chambers, roundface lock in to a fairly light .50, and there is definitely some torque going on. I found the same thing, holding it A bit more snug helps. Also, when shooting off the bench, where you place the barrel support makes a big difference, and once you find the right spot, make sure it is that spot every time. I also agree with the fellows on charge, ball diameter and patch thickness, but ultimately, it is the gun that will tell you.
Robby

 

[J.D.]

I wonder if reducing the weight of the springs would reduce that torque? I dunno, just wondering...and, springs are easily replaceable.

Just kinda thinkin'...typin' out loud, so to speak...type.

God bless

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

barrel is .540, If I use a thicker patch it's very difficult to load. .520 + .020 patch = .560 trying to get in there. The .010 patch was fine, frayed around the edges but that is to be expected... no burn through or holes. I think, I could go up a little bit on the patch... maybe something in the middle of .010 and .015.
The 90g of 2F was a little over kill for 25y but that's what I shoot out of my 54cal rifle so that's just a starting point. As a hunting load I can see my final load betweening between 80-90g. Punching paper, 60g would be about right.

This "hammer-shock" thing was somehting new for me.

There's a world of difference between a .54 rifle and a .54 smoothbore. You can't expect the range or velocity from the smoothbore that a rifle gives. A .015" patch should work and 60-70 grains of powder is more than ample for any use, including deer hunting. I uae a .600 ball and a.015 patch in my 20 bore and it loads easily. A charge of 80 grains of FFg is plenty for deer and is accurate in the 20. You can't make a magnum out of these guns and there is no need to try. You'll make more noise, burn more powder and lose accuracy. I don't think there's a single gain to be made. :v

 

[kherring]

I use light powder charges in my guns as well. I shoot 60 gr FFFG in my .50, and 70 gr FFG in my 20 ga fowler. Back down on the powder and find the most accurate group.

 

[Many Klatch]

I have found that my smoothbores shoot well with a .010 spit patch. I shoot a .526 ball in my .54 rifle. You might try a slightly larger ball and a .010 patch. I would recommend 75 grains of 3F as a starting charge.

In a smoothbore the patching needs to act as a gas check and to keep the ball from rattling down the barrel.

The tight hold will be a big help. I find that it works with my Bess. I really have to pull it in to my shoulder when I am shooting. That big lock can torque the gun if I don't hold it tight.

Many Klatch

 

[DrLaw]

Shoot off the bench, and NOT off-hand, until you are sure your brain is ignoring the flash, and you aren't flinching.

My wife says I have a brain that ignores everything, if I do have a brain! :haha:

The Doc is out now. :v

PS, listen to Paul, he's helped me tremendously.

 

[Cosmoline]

I've been working up loads for my .54 smooth rifle. I also had trouble fitting standard .530 rounds in it. There's no way they'd work with a patch. I ordered some .520" from Track and those patch up much nicer.

I'd ditto the suggestion of using a milder load. Start at 55 grains and work up from there in five grain steps. There should be a "sweet spot" where the groups tighten up.

I recently tweaked my stock so it will be pulling down ever so slightly on the end of the barrel. I've found this worked well with long barrel Mosins to keep them from making like a water hose. If it works tomorrow I'll post more details.

 

[tg]

I remember my granddad tiold me to aim the gun at the target and keep it aimed there till the shootin's over, call it follow thru, or whatever but the gun has to be pointed in the right direction to hit the target when the boom happens.
large slow locks can make a better shooter out of a good one.

 

[Slowpoke]

There's a world of difference between a .54 rifle and a .54 smoothbore. You can't expect the range or velocity from the smoothbore that a rifle gives.

I'm going to take everyones advice and crank the powder charge down a little bit. After thinking about it, 90g of 2f is over kill and something in the 70-80g range should be perfect. That should be plenty for a 75 yard shot on a deer.

SP

 

[tg]

If you have not tried it give 3f a test some guns in that cal. like it better than 2f, I use 3f in .58 and .62 both smooth and have good results, sometime the bigger bores do well with the finer powder, just cut back the volume.