So I found a .36 Underhammer pistol

[bigmatt-madcustoms]

Opinions please...


Did some shooting of this gun for accuracy off a rest and it is all over the place..some high..some low some right on the money..all shots taken at about 15 yards. Swabed the bore between shots. And by high and low I mean a good 6"..

So I got to checking things out and started hunting up the used ball patches out of the yard.. they look like burnt hell.. I am guessing I need a thicker patch..?? Or can I use a wad over the powder?? Thoughts??

My other two pistols(CVA Flintlock& CVA phildelphia derringer both in .45) do not eat up patches like this gun.

 

[FishDFly]

Back off the powder to 12 to 15 grains, try .015, .018 and .020 patches, over the powder wads are not a panacea. Using wads will only mask another problem.

Shots high, low and on, indicate you are not gripping the pistol consistently and with the same pressure each time.

Sometimes it takes 100 or so shots to polish a barrel and stop patch cutting.

Do a search for "pistol error analysis" on the internet, you will learn a lot.

Pistols can be the most cranky to learn, under hammers can be some of the most accurate.

There are no secrets in pistol shooting, just hard work.

 

[Shifty]

As to quality even with the Hornady Buckshot that i got for my 32cal I had to measure and weigh to sort them ,a lot of them were of spec , so i just went back to buying the Hornady swaged .310s,but for you in the odd cal this may be a good source.

 

[cynthialee]

Well my opinion on wads is that if they help preserve a patch and thus increase accuracy then they are a cure for the problem.

I do not advise tighter patches in a pistol. You will strain the stock and eventually one day SNAP! It will break on you.

 

[FishDFly]

Well my opinion on wads is that if they help preserve a patch and thus increase accuracy then they are a cure for the problem.

I do not advise tighter patches in a pistol. You will strain the stock and eventually one day SNAP! It will break on you.

As before, a wad is masking a problem with the pistol. I know no High Master nor Master who use wads in line matches.

There was an interesting discussion during lunch in Friendship on how to load a pistol correctly with a wood stock. The High Masters are not in agreement with you nor are the European shooter's who shoot original pistols.

But we all get to do as we wish.

 

[azmntman]

I do not advise tighter patches in a pistol.

Me either, too hard to load and I always seem to put the butt down and struggle and yep, I can see it happening. Now If I was to design a pistol loading rack for my CVA KY then maybe, kinda like a cap n ball display. Till then I will use felt and thinner patches, seems to work pretty good for me.

 

[gl1200a]

.010 is really thin.
I'd would thicken that up first.
I do not have an underhammer but my .36 Yazel
I'm using a .350 ball (Hornady 00 buck) and .021 patch.

 

[FishDFly]

.010 is really thin.
I'd would thicken that up first.
I do not have an underhammer but my .36 Yazel
I'm using a .350 ball (Hornady 00 buck) and .021 patch.

Each pistol is different, thus the need for detailed records for loading.

I have a pair of matched pair of Ten Rings, percussion requires .010 and flintlock requires .015.

A lot depends on the lubrication used on the patching, the humidity and how often the pistol is cleaned after shooting.

I shoot Teflon patches and in low humidity (Phoenix) it can be a struggle to load the pistol even after cleaning after each shot unless a very damp patch is used for cleaning, thus the need to down size at times.

To be able to increase patch thickness at times I have gone using a 50/50 mixture of WD-40 and synthetic motor oil. Sure is slick and makes seating the ball easy compared to Teflon.

 

[FishDFly]

"Me either, too hard to load and I always seem to put the butt down and struggle and yep, I can see it happening. Now If I was to design a pistol loading rack for my CVA KY then maybe, kinda like a cap n ball display. Till then I will use felt and thinner patches, seems to work pretty good for me."

One of my learning's from Friendship is some of the more experienced shooters will clean and charge their pistols while in the loading stand, start the ball with a short starter, take the pistol out of the loading stand to seat the ball.

This takes the pressure off the wood stock.

I have multiple loading stands which I use depending on the pistol being shot.

 

[gl1200a]

Correct you are on all accounts, especially on the difficulty of loading Teflon ticking.
I have a .45 barrel for the same pistol that I use .015 Teflon in. It will not without MAJOR difficulty load in the .36 barrel, even here in the humid Ozarks.

 

[M. De Land]

I bought and tried a yard of the teflon cloth because that is what all the top shooters use but decided I didn't care for the dry loading and went back to wet patching.
I see no difference in accuracy as long as wet patch integrity remains good.
Probably the new felt patch material I discovered and wetting with windshield wash is the main reason.

 

[FishDFly]

"but decided I didn't care for the dry loading", after reading Dutch's work, using Teflon patches follows his recommendations almost exactly. I remember using the old Ox-Yoke dry lubed patches years ago.

Most folks load Teflon patches dry, but there is an increasing number who spray the patch from a spray bottle prior to loading to ease loading.

My current thinking is beginning to be if you are going to spray the patch with a liquid, why use Teflon at over $22.00 per yard?

I have a gallon of WD40 in the barn and a case of old Mobil 1, I am going to try that for awhile.

I have 5 yards of Teflon, so not going to give up on it.

My Lewis flintlock loves Teflon, shrunk the group by 50%.

Advantage to under hammers is the strength in the frame, not going to break it during loading.

I see some advantages in shooting under hammers over other percussion pistols.

 

[M. De Land]

I'm going to be looking for one at the gun shows this winter to try out if I can find a decently priced one.
I find my Yazel inline striker about the most perfectly designed percussion pistol available.
The flint Yazel is good but think the reverse lock style guns probably less disturbing to ones hold as the cock inertia is closer to the grip and balance point.

 

[FishDFly]

I'm going to be looking for one at the gun shows this winter to try out if I can find a decently priced one.
I find my Yazel inline striker about the most perfectly designed percussion pistol available.
The flint Yazel is good but think the reverse lock style guns probably less disturbing to ones hold as the cock inertia is closer to the grip and balance point.

My scores are higher with an Ingrham under hammer 40 than anything. A 36 is ready to come out now.

Yazel percussion, bought one in Phoenix and shot it there with very high scores. Shot it in the Texas state shoot and struggled and went to the underhammer as it wins.

Yazel has a major following in Friendship. They are getting harder to find since he retired. I did not buy a 40 which was on the table, bad mistake.

I have a feeling that the under hammer wins is the grip. Hand placement is critical in pistols. I made the under hammer grip from Bondo and it fits my hand exactly and there is no way not to be on the grip exactly as before as the last shot. It even has my finger prints in the Bondo.


Took the Yazel to Friendship and it would not fire, Mike Yazel replaced the spring and goes off now every time. After a full match, your hand is sore and worn out, it is that hard to cock with the new spring, but it shot well.

I bought a Lewis flintlock as it came recommended better than the Yazel from the Friendship shooters. It has the reversed lock. My only dislike on the Lewis is it throws sparks and flint chips at you when it goes off, shoots well though. I need to shoot it more, I like the angled trigger on it.

I keep falling back to the Ten-Ring flintlock, I shoot it well and have set several national records with it.

 

[bigmatt-madcustoms]

I had the chance to shoot shoot this gun some more and I am slowly getting it dialed it.. I am really thinking the the main problem is the nut behind the trigger.. I let my 13 year old take a few shots and did far bette than me..my eyes are just not what they once were..

This gun has a Lyman style hooded front sight already..can anyone suggest a fully adjustable rear dovetail mounted peep sight to go on this thing that would work well with the Lyman sight?

 

[FishDFly]

This gun has a Lyman style hooded front sight already..can anyone suggest a fully adjustable rear dovetail mounted peep sight to go on this thing that would work well with the Lyman sight?

Never heard of one but there may be one. Might do a search on the .www for a ghost sight.

Go to the automotive/hardware store and get a foot of 1/4" vacuum hose. Cut off a short section about 1/2" or so, and slip it onto the nipple and commence to dry fire.

Do this abut 10 minutes each day and your shooting success will go up substantially. I dry fire in the house at the light switches. You can even dry fire at a blank wall, watch your sights for movement.

Great thing about dry firing, you do not have to clean the pistol when you are finished and you do not have to go anywhere to practice.

I read a lot and one of the suggestions is to handle the pistol each day and become familiar with.

 

[azmntman]

Very good idea! I may just steal it and start myself. I am known to be a better pistol shot than rifle by buddies but I am not happy "yet". Thank you Richard!

 

[FishDFly]

You are welcome, my learnings come from some very good mentors and reading.

Call Larry's Guns and order the book, "The Pistol Shooter's Treasure" by Gil Hebard if you do not have it. Read Bill Blankenship.

NYGORD’S NOTES, do a .www search for his articles, well worth reading and learning.

For a couple of dollars more they have the remaining inventory of books autographed by him.

I keep saying, there are no secrets into pistol shooting, but there are some insights.

 

[Mike M.]

I'd also recommend going to www.targettalk.org and reading - it's a board dedicated to the Olympic disciplines.

 

[FishDFly]

Thanks.