Soldering on a matchlock pan

[Matt Ruesink]

Hello everyone, I'm trying to finish a matchlock I started building years ago. I need to solder the pan to the barrel in an exact location to fit the mortise and side plate. The wood on the other side prevents me from clamping the pan to the barrel and taking it out to solder. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm also unsure of what solder to use. Some guys tell me to use 50%silver solder, some say 4%. Tell me what you would use.

 

[Treestalker]

Having never built one, I have considered doing so. From what I have seen, the pan is dovetailed into the barrel from the rear. If I was going to solder it on, I would use silver bearing solder paste, which is easier to use. First I would carefully mark the location of the pan on the barrel, then remove the barrel and clamp the pan on after applying the paste. Then heat it 'til the solder melts, and let it cool. Some people freak out at applying heat to a barrel, especially at the breach. I believe with care and awareness of the type of steel, the low temp solder paste would work. I don't know how it will hold up under use. Good luck, Bwana.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

As Treestalker says.
No worries if you use the low temp silver bearing solder. I use the solid wire and "Jiffy" flux. Works a charm.
FWIW,
It would have been best to fix the pan before you inlet the barrel.
Also as T-S says, the pans were usually dovetailed in from the rear, but I have soldered them and they never come loose.

In fixing though, I don't clamp, I place barrel in vise with pan-side up, tin both surfaces, place fluxed pan in place, and hang a weight over the pan with a wire so it is pulling the pan down with a good bit of force.
When heat is played back and forth on the barrel, you will see the pan settle down into position as the solder melts.
V simple really.

 

[Matt Ruesink]

ok, so you tin the barrel and the pan, then put flux on the pan surface before setting in place?

 

[Treestalker]

The silver bearing solder paste has the flux mixed in; just clean the metal surfaces and apply the paste. Put the parts together and heat. Thanks, Pukka, for the report on solder success.

 

[rich pierce]

I’d braze it. Never have to worry about it again. I sure like the dovetail idea too.

 

[Treestalker]

Rich, the braze will bring the barrel to red hot! I've done it on soft shotgun barrels for underlugs, but on the breech of a rifle barrel? I don't know.

 

[enfield]

Well , even the barrels of modern shotguns are silver soldered at the rear , where the lugs/ under hooks etc are to be attached to .

As long , as You don't use a too "hard" flame as from an acetylene torch and let it cool down veeery slowly , there should not be a harm to the barrel steel .

When I do such a job , I place the parts surrounded by a fire brick on each side , heat it after I've aleady have melted some silver solder on the smaller part , place the parts after fluxing again together , heat them up until the solder melts , what can be clearly seen , and the smaller piece sets down by its own weight . Then I let it alone for cooling , the also heated up fire bricks prevent from cooling too fast , what might cause stress . If You haven't added too much solder , You even can't tell the seal between both parts and they have also settled down with a minimum gap . With a little practice , I now can make jobs like this without having to file off access solder ( hard to do and almost lots of scratches from the file ) . After cooling down , I put the soldered parts into boiling water for getting rid of the hard , glazed flux remaining .
By the way - I use 60% silver solder and borax based flux .

Good luck , enfield

 

[Pukka Bundook]

You Can use brazing or silver solder, but we must remember that British shotguns still have the ribs attached with soft solder and they are never any bother.
I have had soft-soldered, (and low temp solder at that) pans in place for donkeys years and never came loose.
Just do a Good job, and remember that amount of solder doesn't make up for clean work and solder in the right place.
Keep the heat down and you'll be fine with soft.

Matt,
Yes, once both surfaces tinned, a bit of extra flux is an insurance.
The paste mentioned above should work fine, but I haven't tried it so can't recommend.

Best,
R.

 

[Matt Ruesink]

Well , even the barrels of modern shotguns are silver soldered at the rear , where the lugs/ under hooks etc are to be attached to .

As long , as You don't use a too "hard" flame as from an acetylene torch and let it cool down veeery slowly , there should not be a harm to the barrel steel .

When I do such a job , I place the parts surrounded by a fire brick on each side , heat it after I've aleady have melted some silver solder on the smaller part , place the parts after fluxing again together , heat them up until the solder melts , what can be clearly seen , and the smaller piece sets down by its own weight . Then I let it alone for cooling , the also heated up fire bricks prevent from cooling too fast , what might cause stress . If You haven't added too much solder , You even can't tell the seal between both parts and they have also settled down with a minimum gap . With a little practice , I now can make jobs like this without having to file off access solder ( hard to do and almost lots of scratches from the file ) . After cooling down , I put the soldered parts into boiling water for getting rid of the hard , glazed flux remaining .
By the way - I use 60% silver solder and borax based flux .

Good luck , enfield

Thank you

 

[Matt Ruesink]

You Can use brazing or silver solder, but we must remember that British shotguns still have the ribs attached with soft solder and they are never any bother.
I have had soft-soldered, (and low temp solder at that) pans in place for donkeys years and never came loose.
Just do a Good job, and remember that amount of solder doesn't make up for clean work and solder in the right place.
Keep the heat down and you'll be fine with soft.

Matt,
Yes, once both surfaces tinned, a bit of extra flux is an insurance.
The paste mentioned above should work fine, but I haven't tried it so can't recommend.

Best,
R.

Thanks for all the advice I really appreciate it.

 

[Matt Ruesink]

Thanks for all those that gave soldering advice.

 

[Jay Templin]

Been shooting a matchlock professionally and personally for almost 20 years, both blanks and live rounds. (My Bride bought us a Dale Shinn for our 10th anniversary.) I have seen any number of soldered pans come off the guns at work. Had a local smith start brazing them back on and have never had one of those fail. I highly recommend it.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Jay,

Yes, brazing will stay put.

Having said that, with soldering, there is a "land of Nearly right".
If it's done Right right,... (Not nearly right) they'll also stay put. My pans have been on and used for 20 -odd years and not fallen off. (Though dovetailed in from rear is more correct)

Matt,

Good job on yours!
Normally though, with this type of lock, the pan was an integral part of the lock, not barrel mounted.
You captured the lock style very well though.
All the best!

Richard.

 

[BJHabermehl]

Jay,

Yes, brazing will stay put.

Having said that, with soldering, there is a "land of Nearly right".
If it's done Right right,... (Not nearly right) they'll also stay put. My pans have been on and used for 20 -odd years and not fallen off. (Though dovetailed in from rear is more correct)

Matt,

Good job on yours!
Normally though, with this type of lock, the pan was an integral part of the lock, not barrel mounted.
You captured the lock style very well though.
All the best!

Richard.

Yes the land of nearly right. When soft soldering fit and cleanliness are paramount, along with surface area. Given a good fit and appropriate surface area separating properly soldered parts will be destructive to the parts. But a poorly soldered joint will not survive hand pressure before failing. It’s all technique not black magic. BJH