Soldiers And Militia Getting Burnt While Shooting Flintlocks?

[Mulebrain]

As we all know, sparks and gasses coming out of the vent can go pretty far!

My question is, how was this handled when troops or militia were in battle formation? Were troops spread further apart? Were uniforms modified with higher collars to alleviate some of the burn?

I mean if your in line, and everyone fires, most will get sprayed on the left cheek!

Inputs please!

I have been kicking this question around for quite some time!

 

[hawk]

I thought most military muskets have a flash guard on the pan??

It was used as a means to deflect the vent gas upwards or shield the man to your right.

that was my understanding of it .

I would think an ear full of vent gas would be the lest of your concern when facing a volley at 60 someodd yards!...you know that's what my sergeant would have told me :shocked2: dam military thinking

 

[mastrsgt]

Mule Brain,

I have done a fair amount of volley fire and have not been hit by flash except once. The muskets being used were not equipped with flash guards so should be a fair representation of volley fire as it was then. We do not use any kind of extended distance between soldiers. The one time that I did get hit, the commander, without really thinking, directed us to turn slightly to the right and fire. That one got me just above the left ear.

Don R

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

The flash guard is a reenactorism, they did not exist in the 18th Century. The hot gases venting from the touch hole did often hit the man in line to the right, as a matter of fact, one way of identifying a former soldier was the burn mark and embedded black powder grains in the left check. It was not that common, but it did happen.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Right. If each soldier is in his proper position any gas or flash should pass in front of his face, though that can be very disconcerting. However, firing at right oblique could cause some problems, butI don't know if that facing was used in the 18th Century or if flintlock armed troops used it in the Civil War.

We had problems with cap flash at times, but that was the result of rear rank troops not keeping a proper interval in relation to the front rank and not using the proper stance (foot placement) when firing obliquely. That especially confused new soldiers.

 

[flintlock75]

As has been said, a minor issue when faced by a wall of bayonets. Flash guards were in use by regular british units. not all but most. also the standard volley fire did not require aiming along the barrel, the muskets were pointed down range and fire on command, the standard proceedure was to turn your face to the left as you fired, any vent blast would be in the back of the head not the face.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

............ Flash guards were in use by regular british units. not all but most.

Very interesting, I have never seen reference to a "period" made and used flashguard and would like to see an original illustrated. As far as I know, they do not show up in period regulations or in museum collections. Please show us where we can find this information.

.......also the standard volley fire did not require aiming along the barrel, the muskets were pointed down range and fire on command, the standard proceedure was to turn your face to the left as you fired, any vent blast would be in the back of the head not the face.

It would also be interesting to see proof that the British (or any other nationality) soldier was taught to "turn your face to the left as you fired, any vent blast would be in the back of the head not the face." Well, if you turn your face to the left, your face would be in the path of the flash from the musket of the soldier to your left so I am sure you did not mean to say this. Did you perhaps mean turn the face to the right? At any rate, why would the soldier be taught to do this? Another reenactorism perhaps?

 

[Mike Brooks]

In 30 years of research I have never come across anything about flash guards in the 18th century. As far as I can tell they did not exist. If any of you have seen me in person you would have noticed my well tattooed left ear. :grin: Play the game in true 18th century style long enough and you'll eventually carry a life long 18th century tattoo. :thumbsup:

 

[musketman]

I thought most military muskets have a flash guard on the pan??

The flash guard is a modern concept, many musket shooters in the ranks did get scars from the vents next to them during the volley fire commands, but when they went to independent fire that hazard diminished quickly.

 

[cowpoke1955]

While I was with the Color Guards with the Sons of the American Revolution, I also did a lot of research. As others have said, I found no mention of flash guards. One thing I did find was many soldiers wore their tricorn hats cocked to the left. This was so the front corner would clear the lock and not block their view while aiming. Wearing the hats in this fashion would lower the left corner and giving some protection, even though I found no mention of this side benefit. I have heard of some men turning their heads while firing, for they did not want to know if they had killed someone. Some folks were very religous, but would stand with their neighbor for the cause.

 

[flintlock75]

You are correct, face right. I read a report on the lethality of the Brown bess vs the Charliville muskets used in the napolianic war, specifcally Waterloo, based on the information they collected it was determined that the rate of deaths by direct fire was 1 in 300 for the Bess and 1-450 for the french muskets. The flash guards i have seen on original muskets were at the Tower of London Museum and the fort George museum in Inverness Scotland.It is possible that they were a later attachement.

 

[JV Puleo]

I'd never seen or heard of a flash guard until the advent of reenacting. They weren't known at the two or three very early reenactments I went to, where many of the muskets were originals. As to the burn, I've had it happen to me but, like I said, we were shooting old guns and I attributed it to the fact that many of them had pretty large touch holes.

As to British soldiers turning away when they fired, I am very skeptical. British infantry in the Napoleonic Wars had the reputation of being the only infantry in Europe that actually trained in accurate fire. This was a cause of much complaint. Baron Marbot, author of a famous French memoir, almost accuses the British of cheating in that they actually aimed at their enemy. You can't do that very well while turning your head away.

And, there is what may be an actual 19th century flash guard on a Prussian M1809 musket illustrated in Calude Blair's "European & American Firearms". Since this was published in 1962, long before reenacting was popular, I'm inclined to think that the Prussians at least used them in the Napoleonic wars.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Is it possible that there is a simple answer to this that we just haven't thought of? The risk of injury--including blindness--was just too great to go unaddressed. No matter how well trained and disciplined the troops were, they'd flinch with each volley. That they didn't indicates that something was going on that cancelled out the problem of the gas jet from the vent.

If flash guards didn't exist in period, then the only thing left, so it seems to me, is a formation that prevented adjacent soldiers from being hit with the gas stream. But it seems odd that there is no mention of this in military manuals of the day. :hmm:

 

[trodgers]

I would concur that flashguards were not around then. A couple of thoughts on how it was done 'back then'...and why we seem to need these silly modern flashguards to keep our faces from getting scorched off.

One of the issues is over-priming. I think as a rule, most of the reenacting soldiers today put too much powder in the pan.

Another aspect to consider is discipline. With the endless routine of drill...drill....and drill these guys went through, they became very good at the loading and firing routine.

In checking the Von Stuben and Smyth drill manuals, (Rev War through 1812) the maintenance of the line and proper placement of the feet should address most of the problems of getting flashed. If done by the book, the flash should hit your arm, but pass well in front of your face.

As far as not actually aiming, but just pointing your musket at the ememy, looking away and pulling the trigger; I think that theory doesn't work on a lot of levels. Why would soldiers train, not just in proper drill, but also marksmanship, only to disregard that skill at a moment when it could save their life.

The Smyth manual states: "FIRE. Press the fore finger strongly on the trigger, without lowering the head, turning it or moving the piece. "

I think a lot of the flashing problem, thus the need for a modern flashguard solution, is the lack of real training and disipline in this type of warfare. We only do it a few weekends here and there....they drilled everyday. We tend to regard manouvering in the line as a silly marching band kind of exercise, not intened for 'real men'... but in this sort of warfare, the drill is how you conduct the battle and precise execution of movements under a skilled officer is critical to victory and personal survival.

Tom

 

[mastrsgt]

To add to this, according to Von Steuben there is a specific command to "Take Aim". The last sentence of the movement is "sinking the muzzle a little below a level, and with the right eye looking along the barrel".It certainly sounds like they were not looking away or closing there eyes.

Don R

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

At Friendship last year Mike Lea showed me an original Nock Screwless lock. This lock had a flash guard built in. I think most of Henry Nock's
work came in the early 19th century and perhaps later 18th century. It was from some kind of military arm in Europe. I did not remember the date. I was surprised to see a flash guard on an original early lock!

:thumbsup:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Nock was fooling around with his screwless lock in the 1780's.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

I would concur that flashguards were not around then. A couple of thoughts on how it was done 'back then'...and why we seem to need these silly modern flashguards to keep our faces from getting scorched off.

One of the issues is over-priming. I think as a rule, most of the reenacting soldiers today put too much powder in the pan.

Another aspect to consider is discipline. With the endless routine of drill...drill....and drill these guys went through, they became very good at the loading and firing routine.

In checking the Von Stuben and Smyth drill manuals, (Rev War through 1812) the maintenance of the line and proper placement of the feet should address most of the problems of getting flashed. If done by the book, the flash should hit your arm, but pass well in front of your face.

As far as not actually aiming, but just pointing your musket at the ememy, looking away and pulling the trigger; I think that theory doesn't work on a lot of levels. Why would soldiers train, not just in proper drill, but also marksmanship, only to disregard that skill at a moment when it could save their life.

The Smyth manual states: "FIRE. Press the fore finger strongly on the trigger, without lowering the head, turning it or moving the piece. "

I think a lot of the flashing problem, thus the need for a modern flashguard solution, is the lack of real training and disipline in this type of warfare. We only do it a few weekends here and there....they drilled everyday. We tend to regard manouvering in the line as a silly marching band kind of exercise, not intened for 'real men'... but in this sort of warfare, the drill is how you conduct the battle and precise execution of movements under a skilled officer is critical to victory and personal survival.

Tom

Very well stated Tom. Maintaining alignment and proper placement of the feet with correct distance between the front and rear ranks did a lot to obviate injury from the flash, but it did occasionally happen. In the modern ear, few reenactment units can do firing drill properly - it takes practice, practice, practice.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

At Friendship last year Mike Lea showed me an original Nock Screwless lock. This lock had a flash guard built in. I think most of Henry Nock's
work came in the early 19th century and perhaps later 18th century. It was from some kind of military arm in Europe. I did not remember the date. I was surprised to see a flash guard on an original early lock!

:thumbsup:

Good points, but the Nock musket was not standard issue in the British Army, they are very rare today.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Of course, you do have to replace the left sleeve on those heavy coats every few years! :rotf: :surrender: :thumbsup: