Spanish Rifle Build

[rickystl]

Hello all. I'm going to have a rifle built in the Spanish Catalan Style. What would be the most appropriate wood to use for the stock? Opinions please. Thanks, Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[dave_person]

Hi Ricky,
European or English walnut and no other. If you get a copy of Espingarda Perfeyta, a gunsmith manual written by 3 Portuguese gunmakers in 1717, the chapter on stock wood tells why walnut was the only wood acceptable to the Iberian gunmakers. Strength and stability were 2 of the reasons, but the third major one was that it did not require stain. They considered needing stain a feature of inferior wood.

dave

 

[rickystl]

Hi Dave. Thanks! I'm not good with identifying wood. There does seem to be a difference between English and European walnut. Or is it just a matter of terms? If different, my guess would be European walnut as a first choice, with English walnut being a second choice? Or would it matter from a historical perspective? Thanks, Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[dave_person]

Hi Ricky,
Europen walnut and English walnut are both Juglans regia. Turkish, Bastogne, Cicassian walnut are also the same species. Claro walnut is Juglans regia grafted to American black walnut. The bottom line is any English or other variant of Juglans regia will do.

dave

 

[rickystl]

OK. Thanks Dave!! That's a big help. I know where there is a great piece of American Black Walnut. So I guess I could also consider using that. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[dave_person]

Hi Ricky,
American black walnut is Juglans niger a completely different species from European walnut. You can get good black walnut blanks but generally, they work and look a lot different from European walnut. The Spanish and Portuguese had it right, a dense blank of European, English or any other variety of Juglans regia is the finest gunstock wood in the world.

dave

 

[kruzer1]

In History of Spanish firearms by James Lavin (page 192). "Walnut while principally employed for furniture, was also used for stocks from the 16th century on.... Espinar lists cherry, perhaps the most popular wood for better quality arms, as " it is easy to work, does not warp [and] takes a good lustre and color," as well as "agnus castus, white poplar and other woods. The latter undoubtedly include fruitwoods used extensively in Cataluna. During the eighteenth century, the most expensive gunstocks were of oak."

I'm building a 16th century Spanish gun myself and decided to use cherry.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Here is a direct quote from "Espingarda Perfeyta" published by by 3 Portuguese gunmaking brothers in 1717:

"There are various woods of which stockmakers make the stocks, but all must choose walnut, for it is the best, and possesses those qualities which make it more proper for being worked, and also for its security, this being what makes it more durable. It is light to handle, attractive by nature, and lastly it keeps straight, a singular quality for our purpose, for these reasons taking preference over cherry wood to which for nice appearance, new colors are given, and as they are artificial it loses its grace, for it is not clean and has stains; over maple wood which, since it is white, is not right. It is also better than Brazil wood (rosewood), which is too heavy. Thus only walnut should be chosen, and this from the heart of the timber, where are to be found the good qualities we have described".

However, Ricky, I have to apologize because Kruzer is right about Spanish guns. I checked Espinar's 1644 treatise and according to him, cherry was the preferred wood for high-end guns. In fact, Keith Neal states that the finest Madrid guns were stocked in cherry. However, there may have been a general shift toward walnut by the end of the 17th century (hence, the comments in the quoted paragraph above) because you also see the use of fruitwoods and maples becoming uncommon in other countries during the late 17th and early 18th centuries.

dave

 

[rickystl]

Hi Kruzer! I have the same book. I'll read that tonight. Thanks! Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[rickystl]

Thanks Dave - yet again. :haha:
This rifle I have in mind will be more of a plain working style frontier gun. So, after reading this Thread I'm going to stick with European walnut. I'll just keep searching till I find a decent blank. It will eventually turn up. I still have to call Dunlap's.
Thanks again to all for my new found knowledge on Walnut. Just a great example of how useful this Forum can be. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[dave_person]

Hi Ricky,
As always, you are very welcome. Every once in a while, check out www.gobywalnut.com for English or Bastogne walnut. They also sell Claro. They don't seem to have many EW stock blanks right now but they often have a good selection. Dunlap is also a good source.

dave

 

[kruzer1]

Actually the thing I like about the Spanish is that the "working gun" was their philosphy :thumbsup:

They tended not to have all the decorative guns like the French, English and Germans. They found beauty in a fine functioning gun over lots of carving, inlays, etc. (with some exceptions of course, but generally you see a lot less than other European nations- just look at the Spanish royal armory guns and rifles in the History of Spanish Firearms book)

Even the "Miquellet" or Spanish lock was something designed for function over "looks". Having the spring on the outside allowed it to have more strength and arguabally reliability than the "standard" (or French) flintlock. I have not built one yet but have been told they will spark a lot of flints that standard flintlocks will not.

Have fun, I've not completed one but researching them has been a hoot :grin:

 

[Vaino]

You got me interested in the Spanish rifle you intend to build. Any pics as to what what you're going to build? Catalonia is on the east coast of Spain and the language is more like French than Spanish. Your intended rifle has some French influence?....Fred

 

[rickystl]

Hi Fred. This will not be a copy of any original that I know of. It is something I dreamed up a while back. :haha: I'm going to use a 1650's style miquelet lock from TRS. See below. It is rifle size, similar to a Chambers round face. I plan on using a Colorain octagon-to-round barrel, C-weight, in .54 rifled,42-44". It will be all iron mounted using a trigger guard from TRS #641 musket and trigger from #619. :haha: The lock area and butt stock will look similar to TRS #619. But the overall dimensions of the gun will be slimmer, more sized like a Virginia type rifle vs a musket. Simple iron ramrod thimbles with no nose cap. Barrel pinned to stock vs barrel bands. At least a medium grade of European walnut. Sort of a hodge podge of Spanish parts put together. But I think it will end up looking better than first imagined.
I'm using a rifled barrel (I know I'll here a little grief about this) :haha: because I'm a round ball shooter. Don't use shot but once a year during turkey season with the 20 gauge English Fowler. So for me, I will get more use with the rifled barrel. Thanks for your curiosity. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[Vaino]

Wow! How'd you dream up this gun? I imagine it'll look "foreign" and intriguing. In other words....a "mysterious gun". good luck w/ this build....Fred

 

[Tinker2]

Looking forward to this build. Nice job on the lock by the way. :hatsoff:

Keep us posted




William Alexander

 

[rickystl]

Actually, I've been putting this together in my head off and on for about a year. Just finally getting around to doing something about it. Sort of a Spanish frontier styled rifle :stir: Hard to explain. But I've thought about it long enough to believe the end result will look good. We'll see. :haha: Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[rickystl]

Actually, I received the lock completed from TRS. It just needs the grey areas polished out. I plan on the lock, barrel, and mounts being left in the white.
If I tried to assemble this lock, I'd just end up with a big glob of metal. :haha: Rick. :hatsoff: