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Squirrel killing distance of Cyl. bore?

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Skychief

69 Cal.
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Messages
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Location
The hills of Southern Indiana
I went grey squirrel hunting with a buddy this morning. He used a 36 and I tried my T/C New Englander 12 gauge with cylinber bore. I shot and killed with the first pull of the trigger at a squirrel between 20-25 yards away. The rest of the morning I fired 3 more shots at squirrels from 30 to 40 yards away. I should have known that the 40 yarders were asking to much with my setup, but, many of us have watched a single squacker for 45 minutes high in the treetops as our necks cramped. Color me guilty, I was skyblasting to some extent! I later told my buddy that I was paying my tuition :rotf: , as I had never hunted squirrels with the smoothbore. So, the first shot of the day was my only one that made meat. My friend took 2 with 4 shots fired from his rifle.

Realize that I was shooting a load that I found best for turkey hunting as it threw the densest pattern I could find. My question is how far can your cylinder bore smoothie reliably anchor squackers?

Feel free to share gauges, barrel lengths, and secret recipes (loads) with us. Thanks! :hatsoff:
 
My 12 guage cyl bore is good for 20-25 yds, although I did bring down 1 grouse at 45 yds...it surprized the heck outta me...I wont try that again...I only shot that one cuz I was laid -off and no money in the bank and no food in the fridge..I was starvin and that grouse was dinner..
Best darn grouse I EVER ate!
 
I had good luck with my .58 fusil with 50 gr 3f an over powder card 1 1/8 oz #7 1/2 and an over shot card, I have also use ahalh a fiber lubed wad between over powder card and ball but really did not notice much change but was not set up with a patterning board, I hit all but one squirrel out of about a dozen shoots during several outings shots were 10-15 yds or closer, one was probably 18-20yds I would not expect much past that without some serious load workup time and even then it would likely be about the end of the "good" pattern range, i could not likely see them any further away in the thick woods anyway.
 
Not a 12ga. but a 14ga. This old cylinder bore SxS, flattened a turkey a 30yds with one shot of 1oz of 6's and 2 3/4 dr. of 2F this year. He went down like being struck by lightening. I am sure the squirrels would do the same. More details, 30" barrels, cyl. bored gun made in the 1840's. Load was 1oz. of 6's, 2 3/4 dr. of 2F.,one over powder card, 1/4" thick fiber cushion lubed with olive oil and one over shot card. Patterning this load looks real good for all hunting, but I switch to 7 1/2's for doves and clays.
 
Skychief said:
Color me guilty, I was skyblasting to some extent! I later told my buddy that I was paying my tuition :rotf: , as I had never hunted squirrels with the smoothbore.
I'm afraid I have to say the squirrels may have been paying your tuition as there is a very good chance you may have hit them with a pellet or two.
Squirrels are tough little rascals, I've seen them make it into a hole with a .22 through the chest. There are printed life size squirrel targets available, you may even be able to download and print some from an online source. Try a few shots at 20 yards and see if you can make consistent hits with at least four pellets of no smaller than #6 shot, five or six hits would be much safer. At whatever range you get reliable hits, that is your maximum range. There will be lucky shots at much longer range but a serious hunter and sportsman will not trust to luck. Keep in mind that there will be thick and thin spots in your pattern and you have no control as to where those spots fall so you really need a pattern dense and even enough so that even the thin spots will be adequate. Better luck next time! :wink:
 
30 yards is pushing it with a cylinder bored 12 on squirrels. You can up the load to 1-1/2 oz of #4 over 75 gr FFg and perforate them pretty well.

I had my New Englander cylinder bore jug choked to #2 skeet (about a 55% pattern). I'd highly recommend it for squirrels. Helped me with the grouse and bunnies. PT CoyoteJoe for details.

And I fully agree with him. Squirrels take some killing where rabbits and grouse seem to give up after a couple pellets. I use my .54 on the tree rats. No, they don't take that much killing. FOr the few I harvest I prefer waiting them out and korkin' them in the head.
 
A .54 on squirrels :shocked2: Don't know what they did to cross you but I am sure they regret it. :surrender:

Is it easier to dress them without a head? :hmm:
 
You don't tell us what size shot you used, so we can only guess at what your problem was. Remember, that when you are shooting overhead, that stock is NO LONGER fitting on your shoulder the same as it does when you are shooting birds, bunnies, and rabbits that are at eye level. Most shooters make the mistake of reverting to rifle habits, and AIM the shotgun by looking down the rib or top edge of the barrel, when shooting UPward. The pattern is rarely going to go to the same POA as it does when you are shooting it at eye level, parallel to the ground.

I learned this valuable lesson shooting sporting clays at a high tower event. I didn't hit a bird! I had to go back to a practice field to find out where my pattern was going!

Do use those paper targets of squirrels to find out what the maximum distance is for your gun and load. 4 pellets should be minimum to insure a kill. I found using #5 lead shot gave the punch, and the pattern needed to kill them out to 30 yds, but rarely ever take a shot at squirrels beyond 60 feet( 20 yds). I use 75 grains of FFg powder, and 1 1/4 oz. of #5 shot, but I may try to reduce that powder charge some to see if that pattern doesn't tighten a bit.

Its the number of pellets hitting the squirrel, and the retained pellet energy at that distance, that kills them. Use larger size shot, reduce your powder charge to tighten your pattern, and keep the range within the maximum range your gun patterns well, based on lots of test shots at the range on your targets.

I have squirrel targets, on 8 1/2 x 11 inch paper, easily photocopied at the nearest Kinkos, so I can have an unlimited supply of test targets, very cheap. Since the shot holes are so small, you can save the targets, and use them to shoot RB from your rifle at various distances, afterwards. Did I say I am "Frugal", to a fault? :rotf: :thumbsup:
 
PGTMG said:
A .54 on squirrels :shocked2: Don't know what they did to cross you but I am sure they regret it. :surrender:

Is it easier to dress them without a head? :hmm:

32s take heads right off too.

Dan
 
Skychief said:
I went grey squirrel hunting with a buddy this morning. He used a 36 and I tried my T/C New Englander 12 gauge with cylinber bore. I shot and killed with the first pull of the trigger at a squirrel between 20-25 yards away. The rest of the morning I fired 3 more shots at squirrels from 30 to 40 yards away. I should have known that the 40 yarders were asking to much with my setup, but, many of us have watched a single squacker for 45 minutes high in the treetops as our necks cramped. Color me guilty, I was skyblasting to some extent! I later told my buddy that I was paying my tuition :rotf: , as I had never hunted squirrels with the smoothbore. So, the first shot of the day was my only one that made meat. My friend took 2 with 4 shots fired from his rifle.

Realize that I was shooting a load that I found best for turkey hunting as it threw the densest pattern I could find. My question is how far can your cylinder bore smoothie reliably anchor squackers?

Feel free to share gauges, barrel lengths, and secret recipes (loads) with us. Thanks! :hatsoff:


My problem is the ethics of peppering the squirrels with shot and their dying later from one or two pellets in the guts.

Dan
 
[/quote]

32s take heads right off too.

Dan[/quote]

with prb? I have hunted with my 40 percussion it takes alot of the head. I am trying for the first time this year with a smoothbore 20.
 
20 yards with my 20 gauge is probably about right. I use 80 grains of 2f and the same measure full of #5 shot.
 
Dan Phariss said:
Skychief said:
I went grey squirrel hunting with a buddy this morning. He used a 36 and I tried my T/C New Englander 12 gauge with cylinber bore. I shot and killed with the first pull of the trigger at a squirrel between 20-25 yards away. The rest of the morning I fired 3 more shots at squirrels from 30 to 40 yards away. I should have known that the 40 yarders were asking to much with my setup, but, many of us have watched a single squacker for 45 minutes high in the treetops as our necks cramped. Color me guilty, I was skyblasting to some extent! I later told my buddy that I was paying my tuition :rotf: , as I had never hunted squirrels with the smoothbore. So, the first shot of the day was my only one that made meat. My friend took 2 with 4 shots fired from his rifle.

Realize that I was shooting a load that I found best for turkey hunting as it threw the densest pattern I could find. My question is how far can your cylinder bore smoothie reliably anchor squackers?

Feel free to share gauges, barrel lengths, and secret recipes (loads) with us. Thanks! :hatsoff:


My problem is the ethics of peppering the squirrels with shot and their dying later from one or two pellets in the guts.

Dan


Dan, if I gave the impression that peppering some squirrels to have them die a slow death was my intent, I apologize. Nothing in hunting bothers me more than not taking an animal quickly and cleanly. I realize that to most here that I am merely a stranger sitting at a keyboard somewhere that is interested enough in blackpowder to participate on this forum. That being the case, you will have to decide if I am sincere when I tell you I try to be more ethical than any hunter in the woods. I again hope that you and all here do not think I am a slob "hunter" for scalding a squirrel or two the other morning. As I wrote, I had not hunted grey squirrel with this setup before. Rest assured, my next outing will be under some short walnut trees where I know some greys are cutting. Shots will be easily obtained within this gun's lethal range ensuring little to no suffering in the animals I bag. The taller hickory stand that the hunt took place in will be reserved for shotgunning once the nuts and squirrels are on the ground (or sooner with one of my rifles).

I appreciate your concerns and applaud you for making them known. Apologies if my post led anyone to believe that I took my non-kills lightly. I did not. Skychief.
 
Skychief said:
Dan Phariss said:
Skychief said:
I went grey squirrel hunting with a buddy this morning. He used a 36 and I tried my T/C New Englander 12 gauge with cylinber bore. I shot and killed with the first pull of the trigger at a squirrel between 20-25 yards away. The rest of the morning I fired 3 more shots at squirrels from 30 to 40 yards away. I should have known that the 40 yarders were asking to much with my setup, but, many of us have watched a single squacker for 45 minutes high in the treetops as our necks cramped. Color me guilty, I was skyblasting to some extent! I later told my buddy that I was paying my tuition :rotf: , as I had never hunted squirrels with the smoothbore. So, the first shot of the day was my only one that made meat. My friend took 2 with 4 shots fired from his rifle.

Realize that I was shooting a load that I found best for turkey hunting as it threw the densest pattern I could find. My question is how far can your cylinder bore smoothie reliably anchor squackers?

Feel free to share gauges, barrel lengths, and secret recipes (loads) with us. Thanks! :hatsoff:


My problem is the ethics of peppering the squirrels with shot and their dying later from one or two pellets in the guts.

Dan


Dan, if I gave the impression that peppering some squirrels to have them die a slow death was my intent, I apologize. Nothing in hunting bothers me more than not taking an animal quickly and cleanly. I realize that to most here that I am merely a stranger sitting at a keyboard somewhere that is interested enough in blackpowder to participate on this forum. That being the case, you will have to decide if I am sincere when I tell you I try to be more ethical than any hunter in the woods. I again hope that you and all here do not think I am a slob "hunter" for scalding a squirrel or two the other morning. As I wrote, I had not hunted grey squirrel with this setup before. Rest assured, my next outing will be under some short walnut trees where I know some greys are cutting. Shots will be easily obtained within this gun's lethal range ensuring little to no suffering in the animals I bag. The taller hickory stand that the hunt took place in will be reserved for shotgunning once the nuts and squirrels are on the ground (or sooner with one of my rifles).

I appreciate your concerns and applaud you for making them known. Apologies if my post led anyone to believe that I took my non-kills lightly. I did not. Skychief.
I never thought that you did this intentionally or took it lightly.
But the intent is not relevant in this case, only results matter.
An open choked shotgun is a very poor choice for squirrels, which as someone pointed out are pretty hard little critters.
I kinda thought of squirrel hunting as a test of marksmanship. From my experience years ago talking to people who used shotguns on squirrels your experience is not uncommon even with choked guns.

Dan
 
Dan

Like you, I'm not a fan of shotgun squirrel hunting. My .36 long rifle does just fine. On the other hand, there are many incredibly wonderful squirrel woods here in Illinois that are state park land, and the only weapons many of them allow for squirrel are shotguns.

I "accidently" discovered that the same size shot I used on doves with my SXS percussion just wasn't going to work on squirrel! This accident - I regret - involved the slow death of a squirrel that I recovered, but only after half an hour of diggin him out of a brush pile where he was still alive. Some would say...hey you stayed with it. Others might have walked away. For me, it was a shameful experience.

Now, I still hunt that land with shotguns, but I have made some changes to my setup. #6 shot and careful stalking or ambushing from 20 yards max and every squirrel I touch the trigger on is DRT! I've never had a loss and hardly a twitch on most of them! Squirrels are wonderful at exposing their heads. I never take a running shot.

So, shotguns aren't the problem.

Regards

Dan
 
Thank you for sharing the story of how you learned, to your regret, the limitations of hunting with a shotgun. Both distance, and size of shot, along with choke or the lack of it, determine whether you can reliably kill a tought little animal like a squirrel. I have known many men who were shocked to learn that squirrels are harder to kill than rabbits- until I skinned a rabbit for them, and compared the two hides with them. Rabbit hide is paper thin. Squirrel is much thicker. Small shot just won't do.

Please remember that regardless of choke, or powder used, ALL lead shot loses a lot of velocity in the first 20 yards. 60 feet is a long distance, when you think of it, when it comes to getting close to a rabbit or squirrel. Come on- I showed my second wife that we could walk up to within 6 feet of a sitting rabbit on a neighbor's lawn before it got nervous enough to slowly hop away to some bushes. That's an easy pistol shot distance.

Lyman has a Shotshell Reloading Manual that contains tables that give you MV, Shot size, and then down range velocities, time of flight, drop in flight, and retained pellet energy for all the bird shot sizes. Yes, the manual is for modern Shotguns using smokeless powder. Yes, the figures are for velocities you can only dream about with BP loads. But, the data is given at muzzle, 20, 40, and 60 yards. You can find a comparable velocity that is similar to your MV somewhere on the chart, and go from there to figure out how much velocity will be lost in the first 20 yards out of the barrel.

The hottest loads on those charts lose enough energy in the first 20 yards that the velocity is below the speed of sound. Actually, loads that begin below the Speed of Sound actually retain relatively More velocity over that first 20 yards.

When you examine the chart, it becomes very obvious that the only way to retain sufficient pellet energy at 20 yards is to use a larger sized Shot Pellet in your CB gun. And, actually dropping the powder charge will help keep the pellets closer together for a better, denser, pattern at 20 yards, and more pellets hitting the squirrel.

I have seen squirrels killed cleanly with #8 shot loads, but only when a pellet hit the head.

#6 shot is probably the most common shot size used on both squirrels and rabbit. I prefer using #5 because of the added retained energy. I do have to find a supplier who has #5 shot, and always look for it when visiting a new gun shop, or attending a Registered Trap shoot where someone is selling components.I only use the #5 shot for hunting, so I don't go through lots of bags of it.

It is much better for all of us to learn from someone else's mistake, than to have to learn that same lesson from our own. I thank you for sharing the learning experience. I think a lot of readers of this forum will be much wiser in choosing what gun they shoot, and what loads they use when hunting squirrels.

And, they will also pass on longer shots, which is perhaps the hardest judgment to teach shooters to make in the field. Making that judgment has to do more with hunting ethics, than laws and regulations. Ethics are the principles you use to guide yourself when only God, and you, will know what you have done.
 
Your last paragraph says it all. There is no sicker a feeling than to go home at night and wonder how long an animal you wounded suffered before it finally died. Know your gun, know your range and don't rely on a lucky shot. Pass on the bad ones, there will be another day.
 
I would toss in a vote for larger shot as well I only had 7 1/2 for doves and the shots were close. I plan on using #5 or#6 this season, as it was even the longest shot resulted in a dead animal by the time it hit the ground.
 
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