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Squirrel killing distance of Cyl. bore?

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A .32 cuts a squirrel in half!? I think that's a bit of hyperbole. I've made a number of body shots (Yeah, I know; we always try for the head but sometimes...) on them (30 grns. 3f & prb) and the damage was about what you'd expect from a .22mag. Plus, between the shoulder and the hip there's very little to eat. I have yet to use the .36 or .40 but know from experience a .45 will make an awful mess if you stray from head shots. I agree, Mr. Phariss, that with a rifle you will have to pass up a lot of shots.

I've always been a [squirrel] rifle hunter and prefer it. I had some crummy experiences using shot on them. Be that as it may, I'm excited about getting my new flint fowler and may use it a lot regardless what I claim.
 
I have used a .45 and not shot them in half the one shot. I never eat the middle part anyway. I regrett was when the critter hit the ground amd that huge gray tail was stuck in an oak tree 40 ft in the air, I had hit him in the back of the head but the ball clipped his tail, which was what I really wanted it was the biggest one I had ever seen and I fancied it for my hat.
 
"My problem is the ethics of peppering the squirrels with shot and their dying later from one or two pellets in the guts"

I would be more concerned with the ethics of using smaller bored rifles to shoot everything with the ball passing clean thru and being left for a great number of other animals to pick up and inadvertently eat while grazing then dying of lead poison.There are some who hold a theory that this was the real reason for the demise of the American Bison.
 
Good going Skychief, I have heard you can take Squirrels with either type of gun, in spite of what a very, very few experts may think (loudly)to the contrary, have fun and I'll bet the Squirrels that fall from shot won't know it was not the "proper" sized ball that did them in, enjoy the journey my friend, and ignore the BS.
 
Took some advice today and tried a load using ffg in the 20ga instead of fffg. My load was 60gr ffg, followed by two thin white over shot cards, one 1/4 inch lubed cushion wad, 80gr equivalent #6 shot and an thin white over shot card. Note that I don't use the traditional over powder wad.

At 20 yards, I doubt a sparrow could have escaped the pattern. This was without any shot cups. I can't say ffg is superior to my fffg load, but it certainly was a pleasant load to shoot and it patterned very consistently.

More testing is in order.

Dan
 
DanChamberlain said:
At 20 yards, I doubt a sparrow could have escaped the pattern. This was without any shot cups.

That's a good start...and remember that they all pattern good at only 20yds...25 yards and beyond is where things start to get challenging with a cylinder bore...the struggle is balancing one shot size for pattern density against another shot size for pellet energy that will kill game cleanly at distance.

Remember the settler's thinking: "Less powder, more lead, shoots far, kills dead"
:wink:
 
"Remember the settler's thinking: "Less powder, more lead, shoots far, kills dead"

I thought it was "how long can you live on a lb. of lead and a lb. of powder, smoothbores are bad, rifles are good. a rifle will do anything a smoothbore will do but a smoothbore is bad.Mathematics! it is in the mathematics! pioneers all had rifles, any gun now smooth started off as a rifle"
 
Oh, please! Lead easily oxidizes and combines with other minerals in the soil- chiefly iron and calcium. If an animal were to eat a piece of lead shot picked off the ground, the thick oxide will protect the lead from the digestive juices until it passes safely out of the animal.

The problem with the American Bison, is that it had no resistance to a lot of common diseases that cattle, brought into the Great Plains by migrants, and " 49ers" seeking gold. For many different reasons, cattle wandered away from wagon trains, or were stolen by Indians, who allowed them to graze near, or with buffalo, not knowing-- either the settlers, or the Indians, that many diseases which are only minor problems for cows, would devasted buffalo. Just as measles killed thousands of Indians, because they had no immunity to the child hood disease. Dr. Sam Fadala pubhlished a significant paper on the demise of the buffalo, and totally destroyed the idea that Hunters and bullets killed off the herds. There was Just not enough lead and powder taken into the Great plains to accomplish that feat.


The current anti-gun efforts to ban guns by banning lead bullets uses unreliable data from a preliminary study where the author himself later indicated that the initial results have been proven wrong. Its politics- about power, and control-- not about animals, or guns, and hunting.

For example, The Mayor of Chicago closed the Chicago Gun Club, which had existed on the Outer Drive North of the Loop for more than 75 years, claiming as his reason that the shot was polluting lake Michigan. He had not taken test samples, nor sent them to a lab, before this announcement, but others defending the club did. The results came out of the labs too late to save the club- the Mayor had the bulldozers there the next day, before any court injunction could be obtained--- and showed that the shot quickly oxidizes with the heavy calcium deposits in Lake Michigan water. The lead also quickly sinks in the sands and silts at the bottom of the lake, and pose no risk to fish or birds who feed in the area.

The Chicago Suburb of Naperville, which has a Trap and Skeet range in its City Park was the next target to ban guns. This time, testing was done before the city council voted on what to do. The results indicated that the shot is oxidizing with iron in the soils, and quickly coats each pellet with a hard crust of Iron oxide. There is also calcium in the grasses and soils, and you sometimes see a mixture of colors around the pellets. NO evidence of poisoning of people, animals, birds, NOTHING was shown to result from the club shooting there. But, the council " compromised", and allowed the club to stay open ONLY if they shot Non-toxic shot at the range.

Buffalo are herbivores- they eat Grasses- ONLY. They don't pick up rocks, or bullets, to swallow. They don't accidentally Swallow bullets or rocks, either. Like cattle, they have multiple stomachs which digest the grasses they eat. They EAT A LOT of grasses each day. But they don't eat rock or bullets. Unlike Birds, which use a " craw" or gullet filled with tiny stones, to grind up seeds, and grasses they eat, and therefore have to pick up stones daily to replenish their "craws", mammals don't have this kind of digestive system. A Bird could pick up a piece of lead shot, the size of the stones he normally picks up, by mistake. However, again, the thick oxide coating of iron or calcium, or both, protects it from lead poisoning. The original study at the University of Illinois, by Glenn Sanderson, attributed too many dead waterfowl to lead poisoning from ingesting shot, before they did a better, more complete study to find out how many birds were hit by shot, but not killed and recovered by waterfowl hunters during the hunting season. The mortally wounded birds were woefully unestimated by his first study. He told us that the other problem was how they were disecting the dead birds to discover the Cause of Death. They assumed, wrongly, that all shot pellets found in the digestive track had been Ingested, because the decomposition of the birds they studied was so severe, that they did not have the flesh on the birds to determine entrance wounds. When they went back to check their results, and recovered more freshly or recently dead birds, with feathers and flesh still present, The high mortality from Ingesting lead result of his preliminary study could simply not be supported by the extended data.

But, it was too late. Congress, and the anti- gun/ Anti-hunting left wingers had already seized the day, and pushed through the legislation. Once done, its next to impossible to reverse any Federal legislation.

So, Please don't propagate this nonsense about buffalo dying of ingesting bullets. Or that waterfowl are dying from ingesting lead shot. The restrictions on lead shot use- most recently in California- the true Left Coast-- is about Power politics, and the influence that anti-hunting groups have on a state's legislature. It has no basis in science. Even in the Condor case, the " science " proffered was Junk Science, at best. MOre Condors have been lost to accidents of colliding with high tension power lines, than from ingesting any lead, but you won't see the legislature banning Utility power lines! Yah THINK????
 
paulvallandigham said:
Buffalo are herbivores- they eat Grasses- ONLY. They don't pick up rocks, or bullets, to swallow. They don't accidentally Swallow bullets or rocks, either. Like cattle, they have multiple stomachs which digest the grasses they eat. They EAT A LOT of grasses each day. But they don't eat rock or bullets.
Although I agree with almost everything you have said here, cattle do pick up and eat lots of S#@t. Hence the need for these:
images
I am sure bison did the same.
 
dgold said:
paulvallandigham said:
Buffalo are herbivores- they eat Grasses- ONLY. They don't pick up rocks, or bullets, to swallow. They don't accidentally Swallow bullets or rocks, either. Like cattle, they have multiple stomachs which digest the grasses they eat. They EAT A LOT of grasses each day. But they don't eat rock or bullets.
Although I agree with almost everything you have said here, cattle do pick up and eat lots of S#@t. Hence the need for these:
images
I am sure bison did the same.
Suppositories?
 
I have decided, and I think I speak for everyone here, that I do not want to know what those are.

I did some messing about with No. 6 out of the .54 smooth rifle today. The pattern at 10 yards was definitely lethal for squirrel. At 15 yards it was getting iffy. At 20, I would not try it for squirrel. Bunnies, perhaps. They take less lead. But squirrel, at least the red ones I've hunted up here, are tough buggers. I shot one at least twice in the torso with a .32 cal smokeless pistol (a Nagant) and it still didn't come down.* I finally had to go get the CZ and nail it with a head shot. That's like a deer taking a cannon ball. Plus they're hide has to be the toughest of any critter around. I love the stuff.

*Here's a photo of the hide showing the group. Accurate little pistol, but it didn't matter:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/Gussick/squirrel-1.jpg
 
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"Stomach magnets for the treatment of hardware disease"

Been a long time since I saw those. I worked on a Dairy after school and on weekends thru high school, there is a nifty applicator that goes with them, the magnets pick up pieces of bailing wire and such.
 
I agree with Paulvallundigham on just about all he said. First off the chance of ANY animal finding a shot or ball in the woods is akin to firing your wedding ring out of a naval gun, waiting a year and then retrieving it! Even if the worst happens these things pass through a mammal's gut rather quickly and most heavy metals are not nearly as toxic in the reduced state as in the oxidized state. If you were offered a million dollars for every deer you brought in with a swallowed lead projectile in it's stomach, you'd die in poverty. Course that may happen anyway from the looks of things.

In water and on land lead projectiles tend to merge into the soil very quickly. The real danger is from animals eating our PLASTIC garbage. Where's the ban on plastic?
 
"I agree with Paulvallundigham on just about all he said. First off the chance of ANY animal finding a shot or ball in the woods is akin to firing your wedding ring out of a naval gun"


I find it amusing that anyone would take the post seriously enough to argue against it....it was not a serious statement...Go ahead and tell Paul so he does not waste any time researching the eating and excremental habits of the plains Bovine. :shake:
 
tg said:
I find it amusing that anyone would take the post seriously enough to argue against it....
it was not a serious statement...

It should have been obvious to anyone that it was completely tongue-in-cheek
 
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