Staining Beech Gunstocks

[Cpl. Ashencheeks]

Anyone have experience with staining this kind of wood?

From what I can gather so far, it does not respond well to penetrating oil stains.

The woods I have used most often for other things have been maple, walnut, oak, and poplar. Most of these have responded moderately well to oil stains if it was needed.

Many people who have tried to use oil stains on beech have expressed problems with blotching on this type of wood because of inconsistent grain.

The grain on this particular piece of beech has red grain specs with fairly straight lines and moderately tight grain, but still not consistent in every area. Only about 3 ring areas within the stock also. The grain is nothing to brag about, but does not really need hiding either.

I am more concerned about looks than being HC for this stock. I am leaning towards a medium brown or brownish red on it's color.

As for finish I really do like using tru-oil which I believe to be a linseed oil varnish mix with dryers and hardeners. Hopefully it will still look decent with this type of wood.

Any suggestions as what beech wood responds well to?

 

[Grenadier]

I had very good luck with Homer Dangler stains and with leather dye.

 

[don hepler]

I have used oil based stains on beech with success. The key is to use Min-Wax sealer following the sanding. It is recommended by them, prior to using their stains. I like to take a clean piece of cardboard and lint free cloth, and wipe the stain on it to get the rag dried out a little before rubbing it on the stock. It's easier to keep adding until the color is correct, rather than trying to remove it. I've had good luck mixing dark walnut and red maple or red mahogany together to duplicate TC style finishes. I also apply 3 or 4 coats of Tru-Oil, then the next day spray a light mist of Min-Wax satin polyurethane to get a soft non glare finish, similar to what is on a factory TC, Ruger, etc.

And, the answer is "NO" I don't use this on custom maple stocked rifles. Some people try to compare finishing mystery wood (Beech or whatever) to maple, and walnut, and I do not use the same traditional finish processes for these woods.

 

[Zonie]

hadden west has been luckier than I have been.

I have tried using oil based stains on Beech several times (back when I was young and foolish).
It always turned into a disaster.

When I rebuilt a CVA double barrel shotgun kit I used alcohol based stains on the beechwood stock.

It took several coatings of stain but it turned out very well.

I used Behlen SOLAR-LUX stain, bought at a woodworking store but I am sure Birchwood Casey Walnut stain would work just as well (and cost less).
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/solar-luxngrstain-1.aspx

 

[Pete G]

As a general rule, oil based stains should be limited to softwoods.
Hardwood responds better to alcohol or water based stains.

 

[Dane]

You should stay away from oil stains on ALL gunstock woods.
Every builder I know uses water/alcohol based stains. Along with ferric nitrate, they make it possible to come up with unlimited shades and tints. They are also compatible with all finishes.

 

[Artificer]

After thoroughly wiping a beech stock with paper towels soaked with acetone, here is what I found works best for me.

I mix a small batch of Birchwood Casey's Tru-Oil with a little acetone to thin it out and some Fiebings Medium Brown Leather Dye (this already has some read color in it) to color it a little. The idea is to color the oil that goes down into the pores of the wood. I rub as much of that in as the stock will hold and wipe off most of it off the top of the wood. I go back after 20 minutes to rub more in where it really soaked in. I might do that a second time after the first coat dries, depending on how much oil the stock sucked in. I wait at least 24 hours and up to two or three days until that is completely dry. Then I sand off the top surface again.

Then I may mix some Fiebings Medium Brown Leather Dye in a ratio of 1:1 with acetone or rubbing alchohol and begin to color the stock. This would be for a lighter reddish brown color. If I want it darker, I just use the Fiebings Medium Brown Leather Dye from the bottle. Lay it on as even as you can and right after you lay it on, wipe it off with a wad of paper towels. Go over the whole stock. Then I go back to any light areas and add more stain until the whole stock is pretty much the same color. Then I let that sit overnight. The next morning I rub the dickens out of it with a terry cloth rag and take it outside to see how it looks in the sun. The stock will look darker when you apply oil finish to it, but what I look for is if the stock has a good even color. If not, I dye it some more and repeat this procedure.

Once I am satisfied wit the color, I then begin adding coats of Tru Oil. In between coats, I abrade the surface with the Dark Grey "Scotchbrite Type" abrasive pads. After the final coat I abrade it again and then rub the dickens out of it with a terry cloth towel. This will give the surface a "warm glow" look.

Gus

 

[Cpl. Ashencheeks]

Thank you for the replies everyone.

I have decided to use a water based stain or if I can get it, perhaps the Birchwood Casey Rusty Walnut Stain.

Other than that, I might consider some of the water based stains by Minwax.

Most woods I have put an oil stain and finish on had fairly flat or small surface areas. These would be bows and arrows and they came out rather nice looking. The woods on most of those were made from hickory, red oak, poplar, and cedar.

I had a feeling when looking at this beech wood gun stock it probably would not take oil stains too well. Something about how the wood felt was telling me not put any oil stains on it. It seems light and heavy in different areas.

Another issue is that wood soaked up a tiny bit of oil from my cheek when checking the fit of the rifle. I do not have really oily skin but the pores on this wood picked up what little I had anyway.

This little bit of oil has been sanded out during the whiskering procedure and the stock has only been handled with clean paper towels and I intend on only handling while the stock is still in bare wood or stain with gloves on.

When using alcohol or water based stains should a sanding sealer still be used prior to staining?

 

[Dane]

Absolutely not. You want the stain to soak into the wood, not lay on top. This is the advantage of water base/alcohol based stains.
Sealer goes on AFTER the stain to seal it into the wood.

 

[MSW]

my two cents:

never had a bit of luck with oil based stains, and I avoid them as a matter of course ... this is true pretty much regardless of the type of wood I want to stain.

usually, I don't stain the wood unless I'm sure that the stain will bring out the figure or have some other enhancement (other than change the color) ... if you want a color change, you should have gone with that color wood in the first place.

avoid mixing stains ... I got into trouble with this BIG TIME trying to get a 'just right' shade on a highly figured maple gunstock ... it was a disaster ... I mixed a LMF stain and some leather dye (wrongly assuming that, since they were both 'solvent soluble,' they would mix together) WRONG!! it was a blotchy mess, and I might have turned an otherwise very expensive stock into firewood were it not for the generous help from the folks at LMF ... the owner (whose name, embarrassingly enough, escapes me) personally answered my e- mails and told me how to fix the problem ... I only use LMF stains now - no wonder why!

if you want a hand rubbed oil finish, I go with Tru-Oil, otherwise, I use Permalyn. Both are very good products, but don't let them sit half full - they will dry out internally and leave you with a finish that you can still use (if you bust through the skim that's dried on the top of the liquid) but the product won't provide nearly the performance of the fresh stuff... two solutions to this: (1) buy a new (small) can for every project ... pricey, but effective or, (2) you fill up the empty space with cheap marbles, until the level of the liquid is just below the top of the can ... the air, now displaced, cannot dry out the remainder of your finish ... I suppose you could wash the marbles or simply let them dry ... haven't worked that out yet.

just the free advice of a cranky old codger:

good luck with your project! :grin:

 

[Artificer]

I used Birchwood Casey Walnut Stain for many years and loved it UNTIL they changed it around 2005. From then on it was a dirty, almost blackish brown with no red hue in it at all. It was HORRIBLE!! I had purchased three bottles of it and they all were like that. Never used it again.

So IF you just have to give it a try, use it inside the inlet for the barrel to see what color it will turn out BEFORE you put it on the outside of the stock.

My two cents.
Gus

 

[Cpl. Ashencheeks]

Are water based pre-stain wood conditioners the same as a sanding sealer?

I assume they are, but do not really know.

It says to use it before staining for more uniform penetration of stain within the grain, but if it just sits on top of the grain I guess it's use should be avoided.

 

[Cpl. Ashencheeks]

From what I have researched so far, there is a difference between a pre-coat wood conditioner and a sanding sealer, but with some similarities.

I am not sure I have a complete understanding of the differences, but I will try my best to explain how I think these two products might work.

If I am wrong, please correct me.

A sanding sealer will block much of a wood's ability to absorb a stain except at the top surface and within a limited amount of grain depth areas of the wood.

A pre-coat conditioner is like the sanding sealer except that it works a bit slower, allowing a stain to soak in a bit deeper and hopefully evenly. If too much is left on too long, it might work as a sealer.

I am thinking just using the stain by itself after sanding and whiskering might be acceptable if paying close attention to how much stain I might apply.

Since the wood is beech, there could be some blotching.

Maybe light coats at first and build from there to deal with any potential blotching issues?

Once again, I do not mind being corrected if my understanding of these products or procedures are wrong in any manner.