Stainless 2nd Gen. Colt 1860

[mhb]

I went to a gun auction Friday. The item I was really after was about the best 1873 Trapdoor I've ever seen, but it went for more than I was willing to pay. They were also offering a Webley Wedgeframe percussion .44, which looked good in the photos, but, on inspection, turned-out to be in need of major repairs, so I passed on that.
What I couldn't pass on (because it went for a very good price) was a NIB 2nd Gen. stainless Colt 1860.
Now I'm conflicted: I bought it for a price I would pay for a shooter: BUT: it's a limited edition, somewhat collectible, and I'm not a collector.
So: how do these things shoot, compared to other currently available 1860 copies, and should I shoot it, or pass it on to someone more interested in its collector appeal/value?
What to do, what to do...?
mhb - Mike

 

[Many Klatch]

Well if you aren't too married to the idea of having a stainless Colt. You could probably sell that and get a brace Uberti Colts and the accouterments for the money. Then you could shoot and not worry about collector value.

Many Klatch

 

[Don]

Those stainless Colts are sweeeeeet! I'd keep it and shoot it. But thats just me.

Don

 

[cynthialee]

I'd also find a buyer and take the money from that sale and get two shoting guns.

 

[mhb]

Thanks all who have responded so far.
I am really hoping that someone who has actually shot one will provide some performance data.
mhb - Mike

 

[Zonie]

I notice in the Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Values, when writing about the 2nd Generation Colts, I can find no mention of a "stainless" 1860 Colt.

There are several references to Nickle plated 1860 Colts made in the book and these were made in very limited numbers.

 

[Robert an saa fan]

I notice in the Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Values, when writing about the 2nd Generation Colts, I can find no mention of a "stainless" 1860 Colt.

There are several references to Nickle plated 1860 Colts made in the book and these were made in very limited numbers.

Zonie, in 1983 I bought three standard stainless steel 2nd Generation Colt 1860 Army models new in the Colt big black cardboard boxes with Colt paperwork. Purchased them from Davidsons distributors.

I currently own two of those three and two other stainless 2nd Generation Colts. Also have two stainless steel 2nd Generation Colt 1851 Navy models. Both 1851's were bought second hand a few years ago. One 1851 has the original big black cardboard box with Colt paperwork and the other does not.

Both the 1860 and 1851 stainless Colt's have an " S " for stainless on the end of their serial numbers.

In 1982 Colt advertised and planned to make 2000 stainless steel percussion revolvers like each model percussion revolver that they produced in blue and color casehardened finish. Unfortunately this did not happen; probably because the demand was not there. The 1982 retail price for 1860/1851 blued and color casehardened and stainless guns was about $500 which was quite high back then.

IIRC Colt made about 1278 stainless 1860 Armies and about 789 stainless 1851 Navies. They made seven ( 7 ) 1861 stainless Navies. I saw a stainless 1861 Colt 2nd Generation a few years ago.

One neat thing about the stainless 1860 was that it was the first stainless steel Colt produced and IIRC this information was touted in their full page gun magazine ads during 1982. I have one of these ads but have no idea where it is.

Robert

 

[Robert an saa fan]

Mike, have shot one of my stainless steel 1860 2nd Generation Colt's and found it did seem to clean up a little easier than the blued/color casehardened Colts.

The somewhat subdued "matte" finish was not too reflective in the sunlight. In reality the stainless 1860 probably did not shoot any better than other 2nd Generations I have shot. I am just a tin can shooter so can not say if these Colts are more accurate than the various other older and current Italian replica 1860's I have shot.

As you likely know 2nd Generation Colt percussion's do have high quality and they are real Colt's despite having some subcontracted parts. Colt has subcontracted work since their very early days so to me this is not a negative.

As to if you should shoot yours or sell it... that is your decision. You describe the Colt as NIB which means to me unfired, new in the original box with all paperwork. With the original Colt big black cardboard box and Colt paperwork the gun does have collector value. However, these have not seen the appreciation that other Colts like many of the 1st and 2nd Generation SAA's, 1911's, and other models have.

If you like the Colt and it "speaks" to you I'd say keep it and enjoy it. However, from your post it sounds kind of like you would rather have the money. So I would say if that is the case, do not shoot it, let a collector enjoy it in unfired condition.

Robert

 

[mhb]

Robert:
Thanks for the input.
The revolver is still in the original box, with all the paperwork, and has not been fired.
I am a shooter first and not a collector, in any real sense. But I shoot good guns, and expect them to perform well. I haven't shot any of the 2nd Gen. Colt revolvers, and have found the reproductions of various makes to be a mixed bag, varying widely in quality, fit and finish, and accuracy. I've had good results from Navy Arms repro revolvers, and wonder whether the Colts perform as well.
I don't prefer the money over the revolver, but am aware that some folks are more interested in the collector value than I am, and don't want to reduce that appeal without thinking it through, first. And shooting it once makes it a used gun forever, whether it performs as well as I hope or not.
So it bears thinking about, and asking for more information before deciding what to do.
mhb - Mike

 

[BE Wild Willy]

Being a member of the Colt Forum, and having followed the trends of the collectors there, I personally wouldn't fire the gun. The stainless guns are very desirable and its value would be cut in half if you shoot it, if truly NIB. I suggest you go to that forum and post an inquiry in the revolver section.

 

[mhb]

Willy:
Thanks for the input. I'll check it out.
mhb - Mike

 

[BE Wild Willy]

I'll keep an eye out over there for a post from you, please let me know if you do so.

 

[mhb]

Willy:
I did.
mhb - Mike

 

[Robert an saa fan]

Mike,

You had a good reply by steg on the Colt Forum on the first page of your thread. He knows his stuff.

As steg said nothing shoots like a Colt 2nd Generation. There are certainly replica guns that function and shoot very, very well and I also enjoy them.

There is just nothing quite like having a real Colt in hand. I've shot a few made in the 1800's Colt percussion's and it is great fun. The 2nd Generation Colt's have been 'speaking' to me since buying my first one in the very early 1970's.

Author Mike Venturino devoted a whole chapter to shooting various 2nd Generation Colt percussion's in his now out of print paperback book, "Shooting Colt Single Actions, In all Styles, Calibers and Generations". Mike highly praises 2nd Generation Colts.

As to 1860 stainless values, I have seen asking prices well over $1,200 on auction web sites but think they generally actually sell for $700 to $900 in a realistic auction without high reserve prices and free auction re-listings. However, I do not spend lots of time researching all the various auction web sites. I have sold two 1860 stainless Colt's in the past several years at gun shows. IIRC one, like new, but without box/papers sold for $700 and one NIB sold for $850. YMMV.

Best of good luck whatever you decide.

Robert

 

[don hepler]

I don't know what they're bringing elsewhere, but around here a 2nd Gen Colt 1860 will bring 1200. or more.

 

[BE Wild Willy]

What all this would boil down to for me is if I really wanted to make a profit on the gun. I haven't owned a true Colt BP, but as far as a shooter, there are some fine repro's out there that can be tuned for half the cost. You could even get a Ruger in stainless for half the price that you could sell the unfired Colt. I was on the hunt for a 2nd generation 1851 for awhile and ended up settling for this High Standard to be my shooter.

 

[Dickydalton]

I got a 2nd Gen 1851 on GB, fired once, for $450 and now have a 2nd gen 1862 Pocket Navy on the way NIB. The Colt 1851 even feels different in my hand than an 1851 Pietta I've had for 20 years.
Also the rifling in the Colt is Wayyy deeper than any of my Piettas or Uberti's.

 

[mhb]

The rifling does, in fact, appear to be much deeper in the Colt than in the typical Italian repro. BUT: that doesn't mean it would shoot better - in fact, I'd prefer a groove diameter that was not larger than the chamber mouth. In the Stainless Colt 1860, the chamber mouths are consistently .451", while the bore diameter is .442", and the grooves are about .012" deep, which means the effective groove diameter is .466" - WAY bigger than I'd expect to give best accuracy.
Has anyone else actually measured any of the 2nd Gen. Colts for chamber, bore and groove dimensions?
mhb - Mike

 

[BE Wild Willy]

The difference between the two dimensions is unfortunately a common occurrence, especially among the import guns. It would be one of the "tuning" items that I referred to in my prior post.

Have you started to lean one way or the other on what you're going to do? To shoot or resell, that be the question.

 

[mhb]

Willy:
You are certainly right about the frequent mis-matched dimensions in the various import guns, but I admit to being surprised to find that much difference in a Colt (though I recently DID have to perform a similar corrective operation on a new 4th Gen. SAA in .44-40).
It is also not an easy fix: you could ream the chamber mouths to a larger diameter, to decrease the diameter differential, but that is not an easy thing to do without special tooling and fixtures (if you want to keep all the holes in the right places, all the same size, and all parallel to the bore), and, to bring the resulting ball diameter to or very near the actual groove diameter would require chamber mouths and balls to be above .460", and there aren't any available balls (or common molds) in such a size, so far as I know.
As the factors add up, I'm leaning toward passing this one on to a collector...
mhb - Mike