Standard length of Pull ?

[UNCLE PAULY]

Hi all,

Brand new member with first question.

35 + years ago I had hunted deer during BP season with a TC Renegade 50 cal. percussion rifle. Flash forward I'm now thinking of a flintlock rifle for target only.

While looking at used custom built rifles I'm see a lot with 13-1/2" length of pull. Is this the standard for most flintlock rifles and rifle kits sold?

I'm 6"-0'' and prefer 14" LOP on my modern centerfire and rimfire rifles. For this reason I have not considered any flintlock that is less than 13-3/4" LOP.

Am I making a big mistake? If 13-1/2" LOP is standard maybe I should be reconsidering?
My goal is to learn to shoot standing and off hand, 50 - 100 yards.

Any advice or comments will be appreciated.

Thanks, Paul

 

[M. De Land]

Hi all,

Brand new member with first question.

35 + years ago I had hunted deer during BP season with a TC Renegade 50 cal. percussion rifle. Flash forward I'm now thinking of a flintlock rifle for target only.

While looking at used custom built rifles I'm see a lot with 13-1/2" length of pull. Is this the standard for most flintlock rifles and rifle kits sold?

I'm 6"-0'' and prefer 14" LOP on my modern centerfire and rimfire rifles. For this reason I have not considered any flintlock that is less than 13-3/4" LOP.

Am I making a big mistake? If 13-1/2" LOP is standard maybe I should be reconsidering?
My goal is to learn to shoot standing and off hand, 50 - 100 yards.

Any advice or comments will be appreciated.

Thanks, Paul

Length of pull is as divergent as is human anatomy along with cast off or on, pitch, drop, toe in/out and butt angle. Also depends on how the gun will be used.
If off hand shooting mostly, which I think was the predominate mode of muzzle loader shooting then usually a shorter pull length is desired as it helps get the weight and balance closer to the torso for a steadier hold. I like to get my upper support arm, right against my rib cage , if I can.

 

[arcticap]

What fits me won't fit my adult son since he's taller.
And sometimes, what fits me in the summer won't fit me well in cold weather when wearing heavy layers of clothing.
There's also different styles of holding the gun for shooting off hand [or standing] which I usually refer to as either "target style" or "hunter style".
Some folks have a strong preference for one style or the other, which the length of pull can also affect whether a gun can be fired comfortably using both styles or not.

In the old days, people were probably generally shorter in height than in modern times.
Although there are still plenty of people of shorter stature, perhaps the custom guns are made with a traditional LOP in mind. I'm really not sure.
But many modern guns have a LOP that are uncomfortable for ladies to shoot with.

I've recommended to go a gun shop or gun show and shoulder the gun, and bring a heavy jacket to simulate cold weather shooting.
A gun with a shorter LOP can always have a removable buttpad attached to lengthen it during warmer weather and then removed if needed.
They can be made of leather that lace on, or a slip on rubber buttpad, or wear padding on the shoulder, a shooter's jacket etc...
Not every gun can be permanently shortened or lengthened and still fit comfortably enough for acceptable aim and hold in every situation.

That's why I believe that the fit and comfort of the gun and stock is more important than the brand or the make or most of the other details.
It can be hard to find that perfect gun if it can be found at all.
There's always going to be some trade offs.
With a more expensive gun, the more you'd expect to receive a more perfect fit and a higher level of comfort.
Unfortunately it can be very difficult to buy some items by mail order, especially expensive ones that require a good fit.

 

[rich pierce]

Can you shoot an off the shelf pump shotgun? In my experience one can always comfortably shoot a shorter pull gun than usual for you, but not a longer pull gun. Until it gets down under 12” on a gun with recoil.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Hi all,

Brand new member with first question.

35 + years ago I had hunted deer during BP season with a TC Renegade 50 cal. percussion rifle. Flash forward I'm now thinking of a flintlock rifle for target only.

While looking at used custom built rifles I'm see a lot with 13-1/2" length of pull. Is this the standard for most flintlock rifles and rifle kits sold?

I'm 6"-0'' and prefer 14" LOP on my modern centerfire and rimfire rifles. For this reason I have not considered any flintlock that is less than 13-3/4" LOP.

Am I making a big mistake? If 13-1/2" LOP is standard maybe I should be reconsidering?
My goal is to learn to shoot standing and off hand, 50 - 100 yards.

Any advice or comments will be appreciated.

Thanks, Paul

Why do you even care what a "standard" is if you KNOW what you want? Find out what you NEED and buy that.

 

[arcticap]

Can you shoot an off the shelf pump shotgun? In my experience one can always comfortably shoot a shorter pull gun than usual for you, but not a longer pull gun. Until it gets down under 12” on a gun with recoil.

That's very true.
But one difference is how a shotgun is brought up to the cheek while rifles are usually shouldered.
Mounting both can be the same but not always, as far as I've been advised.
Again that may depend on the style of offhand shooting, whether using a target style hold or a hunting style hold.

 

[hanshi]

I do best with a 12-1/2" lop. It works well when winter clothes are worn and feels perfect with warm weather dress. Most of mine are 13" which is okay since I got used to modern guns with even longer lop. I have a friend much taller than me and he built his deer rifle with a 12-1/2" lop.

 

[rich pierce]

When I built my first flintlock I though I needed a long pull. Did all the various measurements and came up with 14 and 1/4”. Many times it’s too long.

 

[arcticap]

Many factory Hawken style rifles have a 14" LOP or very close to it.
Other models like the factory Kentucky rifles have a shorter LOP closer to 13.5"
I just looked up the Lyman Great Plains rifle and it's LOP is listed as 14".
I'm guessing that most of the other Lyman rifles also have a 14" LOP.--->>> http://logcabinshop.com/oc30/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=24402

Some other listed factory LOP's:
Pedersoli Pennsylvania Dixie .45 Rifle - 13.5"
Pedersoli Kentucky - 13.5"
Cabela's Pedersoli Blue Ridge - 14 1/8"

 

[Kansas Jake]

I would also second Articap's suggestion to go to a gun shop and get a feel for what is comfortable. Also, barrel length and thickness may make a difference along with the drop of the stock. Another option is if you know some folks with several muzzleloaders similar to what you are thinking about getting, is to see if they will let you shoot the rifle several different ways. For example I find the comfort level of a rifle is much different shooting from a bench as opposed to offhand.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Hi all,

Brand new member with first question.

Am I making a big mistake? If 13-1/2" LOP is standard maybe I should be reconsidering?

Thanks, Paul

Hi Paul Welcome to the forum!
The guys here are a good bunch, but am surprised more did not welcome you. I kinda think they were all too eager to help and forgot you were a newbie.
IMO, a shorter LOP is better than too long. Don't worry about a standard, try to get what will work for you.
Flintlocklar

 

[Treestalker]

Hello Paul. I'm no expert, but I believe you would do better with a little more length of pull. However, you must also consider thickness of clothing under the butt, your body shape, etc. Slightly shorter LOP will work better with winter clothing, heavy build, and c. The best thing would be to try handling actual rifles, with differing lop's and cast off and drop at the heel. I'm 5'10" heavy build, but long armed, so I can handle a little more LOP with 1/4" cast off. The gun should 'snuggle' up to you. Remember most long rifles with crescent butt plates fit into the dip between the deltoid and bicep muscles, not up on the shoulder. Good luck, Geo.

 

[crankshaft]

With Long heavier bbls I like a shorter LOP.
I can live with a shorter one vs let longer ones.

 

[Sidney Smith]

IIRC the LOP on my smoothie is around 14 inches. Fits me comfortably with or without heavy clothing.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Hi all,

Brand new member with first question.

35 + years ago I had hunted deer during BP season with a TC Renegade 50 cal. percussion rifle. Flash forward I'm now thinking of a flintlock rifle for target only.

While looking at used custom built rifles I'm see a lot with 13-1/2" length of pull. Is this the standard for most flintlock rifles and rifle kits sold?

I'm 6"-0'' and prefer 14" LOP on my modern centerfire and rimfire rifles. For this reason I have not considered any flintlock that is less than 13-3/4" LOP.

Am I making a big mistake? If 13-1/2" LOP is standard maybe I should be reconsidering?
My goal is to learn to shoot standing and off hand, 50 - 100 yards.

Any advice or comments will be appreciated.

Thanks, Paul

Probably the best thing you can do is pick up one that has a 13½" pull and mount the gun as you normally would another rifle. If you do that and the stock goes swinging right on past your shoulder, then it really is too short. IF you have to squeeze your forearm hard against your bicep, it's too short.

Another thing you need to be careful of is how close your nose gets to the top of your trigger hand. If it's too close, the back of your thumb will hit you right in the nose from the recoil...that's too close.

For many years I did custom fittings of shotguns for use with the Churchill Instinctive shooting method. The LOP was the one measurement that had some room for variation. When fitting folks for a shotgun for waterfowl, I would ask them to bring the clothing they wore in the field for the fitting. This was particularly important if they hunted waterfowl in cold weather and wore a bulky jacket. I would do the fitting with them wearing the jacket so we could be sure that the gun would mount smoothly and not get stuck in the jacket during the mount.

Twisted_1in66
Dan

 

[BlackHillsBob]

I used to build a lot of muzzleloaders from scratch, no precut stock. i would have them make a out line of the stock in card board glued together so it was stiff to a stock that fit them perfectly. when it came to the shoulder their cheek was where it was good for them, they did not have to lower their head to look down the sights. they did not have to raise the muzzle or lower the muzzle to look down the barrel to get a good sighting picture. their trigger finger when perfectly to the let off trigger with out discomfort of any kind. they would send me this cardboard stock and i would use that for a out line to cut out a blank stock. i never inlet the barrel channel my self, have a friend with a milling machine and i would take it to him with the right router and he would do it.do this and send it to the guys with all the blanks and have your cardboard blank match one of theirs. or something like that. you will never sell that gun as it will fit you like a glove.

 

[arcticap]

I think the custom guns are made with a shorter LOP to help:
1. offset the weight of the long & heavy barrels and to reduce fatigue
2. accommodate clothing & jackets
3. to not need to reach too far to properly release a hair trigger by being able to pull it straight back
4. to accommodate different shooting styles, techniques and positions.

 

[RAEDWALD]

Try a slip on butt pad on any gun you are trying. If it helps than you need the longer pull. I use a French Army MAS slip on rubber pad on my antique rifles for that reason. They were made to adjust pull length not cushion recoil. The antiques were made for period skinny short arses not my 6 foot bulk. If it fits better as it comes with just a shirt then you need a shorter one to allow for cold weather/rain clothing. A crude fit but it is some guide.

 

[Louisk]

Does anyone know if any production small bore flintlock rifles come in a 14 inch LOP? I have a Lyman GPR that's around that size and if fits me very well. I'm a big guy, about 6'6".

 

[arcticap]

The Cabela's Pedersoli Blue Ridge used to be made in .36 and is listed as having a 14 1/8" LOP.
But finding one may be difficult.
Someone posted about it in 2006:

"I have one in .36. It's a decent gun for the price. The touchhole is too small and too thick. I thinned and enlarged it upon which the gun became 100% reliable. The barrel is a bit tight for my tastes: the standard .350 ball with a .010" patch needs to be rammed home with enough force that the ball becomes deformed. I use .345" ball in the rifle, which seats easily and is very accurate -- more accurate than I can prove with the primitive sights, I believe. The rifle is also fairly well finished. It doesn't match the level of a decent custom gun, but that can't really be expected, IMO. I don't think anyone would be dissapointed with it."