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Steel shot debut.....not so good !

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roundball

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1+1/8oz steel #4's out of a .20ga cylinder bore do not make a very tight pattern at 25 yards.
It makes a reasonably kind of so-so good enough pattern for wing shooting at 25yds, but for the place I'm going to be forced to shoot from, with a couple farm houses around, I was really hoping to tag some like turkey hunting but the pattern is just too thin to count on a head shot.

Tried several combinations of powder charges, wad configurations under the shot cup, different numbers of and lengths of slits in the shot cups, etc...and while some where better than others of course, none of them just shouted out "this is the one".

The good news is that the steel shot cups did their job of protecting the bore...all the cups looked good...and checking after cleanup just now the bore is like a mirror the full length...GM put a polish job on this one for sure.

I had a few pounds of dusty old lead #4s and used them for the first few shots to save the more expensive steel...and the lead patterned great. So the first hand experience of lighter steel pellets...in spite of using a steel pellet shot cup...is that they spread wider making a much thinner pattern than the heavier lead #4s which just bored straight on ahead.

I've had feelers out several places for over a week now looking for some Bismuth but no bites...and now, since I already have the special shot cups, guess I'll see if I can find a couple pounds of leftover #5 or even #6 Hevi-shot from somebody, see if that'll give me a turkey head pattern.

Smoothbores are great...frustrating...but great !
:thumbsup:
 
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Not cheap but Bismuth is supposedly being marketed again and you can also find old boxes of bismuth shells you can harvest the shot from if you really want to. I know a gunshop that still has dozens of boxes sitting on a shelf gathering dust. Some of the other non-toxic shots that hit the market are supposedly better, though still equally expensive. Check out the double guns forum, they talk about shot alternatives pretty often.
 
Are you measuring the steel shot by volume? If so, you will be throwing a much lighter charge than lead by the same volume. That might throw the powder/shot ratio off. Did you try measuring a larger volume of steel (aiming for an equal weight to lead) and/or backing off the powder charge? Did that make sense? Just thinkin' out loud. :hmm:
 
Have you got the time to try Runnball's cotton-tail drogue shot concentrators (a.k.a. tampon shotcups)? I still haven't been able to get out patterning, but he reports consistent results with them for tightening his patterns.

Joel
 
The steel shot cup is the controlling factor...steel shot must be contained in a protective steel shot cup to avoid scoring the bore, right? So I ordered Ballistic's Products .20ga steel shot cup, filled it up with steel #4s, then measured that in a powder measure, turned out to be the 80grn setting which is 1+1/8oz volume.

My normal lead shot size for turkey head shots is #6 magnum shot, and to get the equivalent weight in a pellet of steel, the rule of thumb is to drop down two sizes, to #4s, which I did. Unfortunately the little .20ga cup only holds 160 #4 pellets rgardless of what it's made from.

So lets see now...geese often sleep on the ground at night with their head under a wing... :hmm: :hmm:
 
Why not go for 6s or 5s in steel considering the distace and the fact you wish to get them turkey style, the pellets will still mash brain and necks.
That rule of thumb may be apparent for wing shooting at extreme distances for cartridge guns but that as I am sure you know is worlds away from our game :thumbsup:

Britsmoothy.
 
Did you chrono the load? There's got to be something at work there causing the spread.

I've shot #4 steel through a cylinder bore 20 gauge cartridge gun and got patterns that should come pretty close to being head and neck shooters. I agree that dropping to #5 shot might improve things a lot if you're going to limit yourself to head and neck shots. Heck, if the velocity was up there, I wouldnt hesitate to use #6 steel for head shooting.

One thing worth noting. Some guns just don't seem to like certain shot sizes whether lead or steel. I've got a 12 gauge shucker that won't pattern #4 lead or steel worth a hoot, but does just dandy with #2, #3, #5 or #6.
 
BrownBear said:
Did you chrono the load? There's got to be something at work there causing the spread.
No, I knew there would be just too much to deal with as it was without also having to mess with the machine. However, I experimented with 80/90/100grns of Goex 3F, and 100grns Goex 2F trying to see if one stood out, and somewhere in those loads should have been a velocity que one way or another.

I also experimented with a single Oxyoke wool wad for a lightweight OP wad to let the shot cup shed quickly, then a single Circle Fly 1/2" cushion wad, then 2 CWs, then combos of Oxyoke and Circle Fly CWs...trying different amounts of weight behind the cup to try and influence how long the shot cup traveled with the shot column before flaring off, etc.

Same sort of approaches with the cups them selves...4 slits and then 3 slits...full slits, 3/4 slits, half slits, etc. One time I tried a cup like it was, no slits at all and was thrilled with the dense pattern I got...I thought "hot dog"...but the bad news is the very next shot the whole thing went through the target like a slug. (I guess this is where the "cotten ball drougue chute" comes in :wink: )

So, I figured if I had to order anything else to try, instead of getting 'more steel', I figured I'd at least consider Bismuth (which I can't locate) and hevi-Shot which runs $26/a pound and the minimum order is $170.

So I threw in the towel and ordered some ecotungsten 'nice shot' as they didn't have a 7 pound minimum...AND...I can use it in my "Full" jug choked turkey barrel without needing a shot cup...and I already know the turkey barrel gives a killing head shot pattern to 40 yards with magnum lead 6's.

Should have a 'nice shot' range report next weekend :thumbsup:
 
roundball said:
The steel shot cup is the controlling factor...steel shot must be contained in a protective steel shot cup to avoid scoring the bore, right? So I ordered Ballistic's Products .20ga steel shot cup, filled it up with steel #4s, then measured that in a powder measure, turned out to be the 80grn setting which is 1+1/8oz volume.

My normal lead shot size for turkey head shots is #6 magnum shot, and to get the equivalent weight in a pellet of steel, the rule of thumb is to drop down two sizes, to #4s, which I did. Unfortunately the little .20ga cup only holds 160 #4 pellets rgardless of what it's made from.
That ought to be a bit under 7/8oz of steel. I'm still puzzled by the patterning discrepancy. Did you shoot 7/8 oz of Pb#6 (around 190 pellets) in the shotcup for a comparison? With 80gr, that should have been doing better than 1300fps in warm weather.

Joel
 
Joel/Calgary said:
That ought to be a bit under 7/8oz of steel.
What ought to be a bit under 7/8oz of steel?
Did you shoot 7/8 oz of Pb#6 (around 190 pellets) in the shotcup for a comparison? With 80gr, that should have been doing better than 1300fps in warm weather.
No...you might be thinking of the normal 7/8oz shot cup like that used for skeet...and 20ga field load cups are 1oz, and the Ballistic Products steel cups hold 1+1/8oz...I literally counted the number of steel #4s that the cup held at 160.
 
I think what he is saying is that steel weighs less than lead and therefore the load you are using that measures 80gr/ 1 1/8 oz for lead shot, will only weigh about 7/8 oz with steel. Are you using steel shot cups for 3" shells? If not, they might hold around 1-1 1/8 oz of steel.
 
Yea, but 1 1/8 oz of lead, or 1 1/8 oz of steel? There is a difference. Just because the powder measure says it is 80 gr equiv. of #4 steel does not mean it actually weighs 1 1/8 oz. If you have a scale, weigh the charge of steel and see what it weighs. I found that it takes a 120 gr equiv. of steel to weigh 1 1/4 oz. 1 1/8 oz weighs 492 grs. so you can weigh it and see how much actual weight the charge is.
 
roundball said:
No...you might be thinking of the normal 7/8oz shot cup like that used for skeet...and 20ga field load cups are 1oz, and the Ballistic Products steel cups hold 1+1/8oz...I literally counted the number of steel #4s that the cup held at 160.
Sorry, as has been said, I failed to make myself clear. Steel shot at approx. 190/oz should have 166 in a 7/8oz charge. For comparison, the 16ga Multi-Metal shotcup only holds about an ounce of steel (± depending on shot size).

A calculation of the interior volume of the shotcup gives .40552 cu.in., based on the dimensions listed on B-P's site. It ought to hold around 1&3/8oz of #8 lead shot, or something less than an ounce of the much larger (as well as less dense) steel shot - probably closer to 7/8oz, so this agrees, if I did things right.

I probably shouldn't try to write (or calculate) when I'm tired. I gotta get to bed!

Joel
 
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I may be missing something here and if so my apologies...but shot charges are measured by volume...note in the "lead shot" table below, 1+1/8oz of lead #4 is said to be 153 pellets.

The shot cup I got holds right at 160 #4 pellets (close enough to 153) whether they are lead or steel...same size pellets just a different weight.

When I'm reloading shotgun shells I change bushings to get different shot charges by volume, not weight. For example, when I reload handicap trap shotshells for the 27 yard line, I use 1+1/8oz Winchester AA shot cups and a 1+1/8oz shot bushing in my Hornady reloading machine.

It will throw that same 1+1/8oz "volume" of lead shot and fill up that shot cup correctly for a proper crimp whether it's 1+1/8oz volume of #6s, 7.5s, 8s, 9s, etc...but each of their weights will be different as the smaller shot sizes have less wasted air space and pack more lead into the same size bushing / shotcup.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/amm.html#numberpellets
 
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Britsmoothy said:
Why not go for 6s or 5s in steel considering the distace and the fact you wish to get them turkey style, the pellets will still mash brain and necks.
That rule of thumb may be apparent for wing shooting at extreme distances for cartridge guns but that as I am sure you know is worlds away from our game :thumbsup:

Britsmoothy.

I can't speak to BP use of steel, but when I used to waterfowl hunt with the required steel shot in modern shotguns, we always go to the next "bigger" size in shot to equal the penetration of comparable lead shot. In other words, if you used 5 or 6 in lead, we always shot 4s is steel.
Dan
 
Yes but no but, what I mean is the reason for going bigger is to make sure at modern shotgun distance as in 40yds+ the steel still has some mass to get the job done.
We only work to 30yds- so keep a dense pattern and they will still get the job done when aiming as Roundball first suggested- turkey style.

Roundball, to get 1oz of steel you will need a measure roughly a third greater than one you would use for 1oz of lead. If you have used the same maesure for the steel as you do for lead the steel load will of been light by ROUGHLY a third.
The load you did try may of been so fast that sonic buffering may have upset things due to being possibly light.
160 No4s in steel weighs less than 160 in lead.
You may of only been shooting 3/4oz loads :shocked2:
The other point is a plastic wad for lead is smaller in volume to a steel one of the same weight- are you sure you have been supplied the correct wad? A steel wad will have no open space between powder and shot cup.

Hope this helps.

Britsmoothy.
 
Britsmoothy said:
Roundball, to get 1oz of steel you will need a measure roughly a third greater than one you would use for 1oz of lead. If you have used the same maesure for the steel as you do for lead the steel load will of been light by ROUGHLY a third.
Correct...in spite of weight differences between steel and lead, the controlling / limiting factor was the size of the steel shot cup.
The load you did try may of been so fast that sonic buffering may have upset things due to being possibly light.
No way of knowing of course, but at a mere 25 yards, using 80/90/100grns Goex 3F and 100grns Goex 2F there seemed to be no noticable difference in patterns that followed a change in the powder charge/velocity.
160 No4s in steel weighs less than 160 in lead.
Correct
You may of only been shooting 3/4oz loads :shocked2:
Shot charges are referred to in terms of volumetric measures, not actual scale weight.
I was using a 1+1/8oz steel shot cup that was sized to hold the appropriate number of #4 shot, according to the published data chart (above)...the number of a certain size shot is referenced according to its size, not weight...ie: the shot cup holds the same number of #4 pellets regardless of what metal they're made out of.
The other point is a plastic wad for lead is smaller in volume to a steel one of the same weight- are you sure you have been supplied the correct wad? A steel wad will have no open space between powder and shot cup.
Correct.
Yes, it is a .20ga shot cup designed for steel shot...barely has a sealing lip on the bottom...the rest is all shot cup...not slits...you slit them as you need to, etc.

I'm done with the steel shot...have some EcoTungsten/Nice-Shot on the way...will just use it in my turkey barrel as its Jug Choked 'Full', and it doesn't require any shotcups.

Thanks for all the replies...hope to start a new thread next weekend with a turkey target showing patterns from EcoTungsten/Nice-Shot #6's if it gets here in time.

Here's the link to the wads I used:
http://shop2.mailordercentral.com/bpicart/prodinfo.asp?number=0207020
 
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