steel shot in my smoothie
- Thread starter rawhide
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WILL SCARE the ducks, not score the bore, may leave allot of plastic residue to clean but I have shot plastic in an older pedersoli 10GA with no ill effects.
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NO STEEL :haha: Use Bismuth. Muzzleloader barrels are pretty soft compared to the modern shotgun steels. Black powder and plastic don't mix.
Wouldn't a thick cloth shot cup protect the bore?
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Well, if you don't shoot ducks any better than I do, you may well SCARE a LOT of ducks.
(CHUCKLE)
Fwiw, I'm NOT sure if teal are "the easiest hard shooting" that there is OR "the hardest easy shooting" BUT I surely do MISS a BUNCH of 'em.
Note: My old (and sadly gone now) good friend, Dan Lattimar, told everyone in the Camp County Lion's Club about the day that I knocked down THREE teal with one shot. - Didn't have the heart to tell the members that I actually MISSED the drake that I was shooting at & killed three that I was NOT aiming at. = The other 3 were unfortunate enough to fly into the shot-string.
As a result, I have "the unearned reputation" as a GREAT wing-shot.
yours, satx
(CHUCKLE)
Fwiw, I'm NOT sure if teal are "the easiest hard shooting" that there is OR "the hardest easy shooting" BUT I surely do MISS a BUNCH of 'em.
Note: My old (and sadly gone now) good friend, Dan Lattimar, told everyone in the Camp County Lion's Club about the day that I knocked down THREE teal with one shot. - Didn't have the heart to tell the members that I actually MISSED the drake that I was shooting at & killed three that I was NOT aiming at. = The other 3 were unfortunate enough to fly into the shot-string.
As a result, I have "the unearned reputation" as a GREAT wing-shot.
yours, satx
To SATX,
Fret not, I do that all the time, but never let them (the guys ) know that was really shooting at the other target, or the gun accidently went off.
I do know if I could safely get 7 or 8 ounces of shot in my smooth bore, I would be a better wing shot. :bull: :idunno:
Fred
Fret not, I do that all the time, but never let them (the guys ) know that was really shooting at the other target, or the gun accidently went off.
I do know if I could safely get 7 or 8 ounces of shot in my smooth bore, I would be a better wing shot. :bull: :idunno:
Fred
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Fred,
I'm NOT sure that a HOWITZER would help my teal KILLING (as opposed to teal SHOOTING) ability.
(CHUCKLE)
yours, satx
I'm NOT sure that a HOWITZER would help my teal KILLING (as opposed to teal SHOOTING) ability.
(CHUCKLE)
yours, satx
It would have to be very thick, tough cloth.Cynthialee said:
Thick and tough enough that the steel shot can't crush it out of the way as its trying to scatter to let the crazy wad that's under it accelerate to the speed of sound.
If you've ever found the plastic sleeve that was fired from a shotgun look closely at how the pellets tried to penetrate it.
Chances are, there will be places where they almost succeeded.
Those plastic sleeves are much tougher than any ordinary cloth I know of.
Joel/Calgary
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Rawhide, I've been using bismuth shot for waterfowl, but I've been interested in steel shot in muzzleloaders for a long time, so I've read everything I could find from others shooting it and have done some experimenting of my own. I've come to the conclusion that my 16ga double is rather lightly built for success with steel, but I can summarize what I've gleaned from my reading.
I don't know your background, so please forgive me if any of this is belaboring what you already know.
First, as you've provably read, it is much easier to have success with denser shot at muzzleloading velocities, and you can use bismuth, Nice Shot (Ecotungsten), and (according to several people) ITX Original 10 without any special shot protection. Unfortunately these are all much more expensive than steel shot.
Assuming that it fits in your 11ga bore, you can try the SP10 wad, but it is intended for lead shot. Since you're not shooting through a forcing cone or choke, the SP10 might be sufficient by itself to use with steel shot, but I'd strongly recommend putting a Mylar wrap inside it for additional protection. Most shooters use some sort of conventional card and/or fiber/felt wads under the plastic wad to keep the powder gasses away from the plastic, and some will cut the cushion section off the plastic wad and just use the shot cup over the over-powder wad(s). Given the design of the SP10, it looks be difficult to trim the cushion section off with consistentcy, so it might work better whole. Most shooters use some sort of lubrication, whether swabbed in, applied on/in wads, globbed between wads, or globbed into the cushion section of the plastic wad.
I'd estimate that the SP10 would hold 1.1/8oz to 1.1/4oz of steel shot, depending on the size and whether the wrap is used. Most guys reporting consistent success shooting ducks with steel in muzzleloaders seem to to be using #1-#3 size, and using more powder by volume than the equal-volume load for the same weight of lead shot, maybe 1/4 more (or more). For example, with a 1.1/4oz lead-shot load, the same volume of powder is about 3dr/82gr, so 1/4 more would be 3.3/4dr/103gr, which happens to equal the "heavy field load" for a choked 12ga. With conventional loads in unchoked muzzleloaders, these heavy powder charges would tend to open or completely blow the patterns, but the plastic shotcups, and especially the stout steel shotcups, tend to tighten the patterns and compensate for the heavy charges. FYI, a volume of powder equal to the steel shot gives 3/7 to 2/3 more (depending on shot size and measure diameter) than the lead-load equal volume, which would be very stout loads of 117-137gr.
Naturally, as with all things in muzzleloading, you'll have to experiment to find what load gives the best combination of pattern and penetration in your gun with your components and loading techniques, and whether it works for your intended usage.
Good luck with all this.
Regards,
Joel
I don't know your background, so please forgive me if any of this is belaboring what you already know.
First, as you've provably read, it is much easier to have success with denser shot at muzzleloading velocities, and you can use bismuth, Nice Shot (Ecotungsten), and (according to several people) ITX Original 10 without any special shot protection. Unfortunately these are all much more expensive than steel shot.
Assuming that it fits in your 11ga bore, you can try the SP10 wad, but it is intended for lead shot. Since you're not shooting through a forcing cone or choke, the SP10 might be sufficient by itself to use with steel shot, but I'd strongly recommend putting a Mylar wrap inside it for additional protection. Most shooters use some sort of conventional card and/or fiber/felt wads under the plastic wad to keep the powder gasses away from the plastic, and some will cut the cushion section off the plastic wad and just use the shot cup over the over-powder wad(s). Given the design of the SP10, it looks be difficult to trim the cushion section off with consistentcy, so it might work better whole. Most shooters use some sort of lubrication, whether swabbed in, applied on/in wads, globbed between wads, or globbed into the cushion section of the plastic wad.
I'd estimate that the SP10 would hold 1.1/8oz to 1.1/4oz of steel shot, depending on the size and whether the wrap is used. Most guys reporting consistent success shooting ducks with steel in muzzleloaders seem to to be using #1-#3 size, and using more powder by volume than the equal-volume load for the same weight of lead shot, maybe 1/4 more (or more). For example, with a 1.1/4oz lead-shot load, the same volume of powder is about 3dr/82gr, so 1/4 more would be 3.3/4dr/103gr, which happens to equal the "heavy field load" for a choked 12ga. With conventional loads in unchoked muzzleloaders, these heavy powder charges would tend to open or completely blow the patterns, but the plastic shotcups, and especially the stout steel shotcups, tend to tighten the patterns and compensate for the heavy charges. FYI, a volume of powder equal to the steel shot gives 3/7 to 2/3 more (depending on shot size and measure diameter) than the lead-load equal volume, which would be very stout loads of 117-137gr.
Naturally, as with all things in muzzleloading, you'll have to experiment to find what load gives the best combination of pattern and penetration in your gun with your components and loading techniques, and whether it works for your intended usage.
Good luck with all this.
Regards,
Joel
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Shine said:
OK - it's late and I'm sleep deprived (nothing new there...) so, for cloth shotcups, steel no, bismuth yes... I assume [insert bad joke here] that this also holds true for 20 gauge
:idunno:
Thank you.
I like the idea of using steel shot, but I really do not relish the idea of putting plastic down my bore! I like to keep my cleaning simple.
Think I will just stick with the lead shot.
I like the idea of using steel shot, but I really do not relish the idea of putting plastic down my bore! I like to keep my cleaning simple.
Think I will just stick with the lead shot.
Joel/Calgary
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I doubt that anyone makes 11ga shotcups, steel or lead. Things depend in part on your specific bore diameter. On the BPI site, there are a variety of 10ga steel wads, and the 10ga wads for which I found the diameters listed ranged from .758-.765". These were probably for the gas seals, while the bodies are likely a bit less. Another possibility would be using 12ga wads inside a paper or light card-stock 2-petal shotcup like the ones Stumpkiller shows in the "paper cartridge" thread (I use the same thing, or slight variations in card stock).
Bear in mind that hevishot is quite rough and much harder than steel - it needs shotcups at least as stout.
If you have any doubt about the effectiveness of your shot protection - either scrub through or shot slipping between the petals - you can add a Mylar wrapper inside the shotcup for insurance.
Regards,
Joel
Bear in mind that hevishot is quite rough and much harder than steel - it needs shotcups at least as stout.
If you have any doubt about the effectiveness of your shot protection - either scrub through or shot slipping between the petals - you can add a Mylar wrapper inside the shotcup for insurance.
Regards,
Joel
You can get bismuth if you want to hunt water fowl. I dont shoot the flying and use lead on the small game and turkeys I hunt. Bismuth is a might pricy however
