Steel Shot Question

[coloradoclyde]

Steel ..., causes a pressure spike upon meeting the choke restriction.
This does not happen when there is no choke as with your gun.

Actually that's not true unless you are talking about the lateral pressure exerted on the muzzle by the shot load passing through the constriction...Barrels are thinnest at the muzzle.
Pressure from the gunpowder is highest at the breach and gets lower and lower as it approaches the muzzle.....if it didn't most shotguns would blow up.

 

[GreyWhiskers]

I have the same issue, Mac. My Pedersoli 10ga has one open barrel and the other is choked. On Dan's (22 fowl)recommendation, years ago I started using Hevi-shot with the Ballistic products plastic wads. I managed to kill ducks and at least one goose with that set up.

The down side was that patterns thru my choked barrel were terrible, for some reason. Thru my open barrel, I could do a decent job but not much farther than 25 yards.

Some time ago I contacted the folks at ITX about using their ITX-10 in my gun without a plastic wad. Their ads mention that it is softer than barrels. Still, they wouldn't tell me it was OK.

It's encouraging to see that Brown Bear is using it that way. :thumbsup:

The other possibilities are Nice-Shot and Bismuth. These two and ITX-10 have about the same density. Not sure what the Nice-Shot is shaped like but I like the irregular shape of the ITX.

I'm not too concerned about the cost. I wanna hunt with my ML and now that CA will be 100% non-toxic projectiles by the end of this year I need to make decisions on how I will adapt.

GW

 

[19 16 6]

Why then will a barrel choked too tight for steel shot, gouge through the choke or split or bulge just behind the choke ?
Says right on the box that it will damage chokes.
O.

 

[rushlake1]

What Noise????? I hear music!

 

[rushlake1]

My wad column.

 

[Historian]

Ok, having hand loaded shot shells for 30 years I will weigh in. First steel being lighter takes up more volume in the shell or chamber which raises chamber pressure along with the fact that it is not malleable and will not compress like softer shot material (Bismuth, Tungsten Matrix and Nice Shot) being good examples. Stay away from steel since you need at least 1300 FPS MV to have any decent chance of downing game. My strong advice depending on how much hunting you are going to be doing is stick with Bismuth and either buy the loose shot from Ballistic Products or Precision Reloading or do what I did and make your own Bismuth shot. It really is not that hard. If you can drop lead you can drop Bismuth.The price difference is about 45%-55% cost savings. If you are really and truly interested then PM me and I will tell how I do it.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Why then will a barrel choked too tight for steel shot, gouge through the choke or split or bulge just behind the choke ?
Says right on the box that it will damage chokes.
O.

Yes!...it can damage chokes...
As I tried to explain the force applied to the sidewalls of the choke is unrelated to the pressure of the powder charge,, as that decreases....Velocity of the projectile on the other hand, creates another force on the choke....

Think of it like swaging.... The softer material get deformed....

The important factors are diameter and velocity...

A plastic shot cup decreases the diameter of the shot column....and BP produces less velocity than modern steel shot cartridges....

 

[19 16 6]

Got it now what you were explaining.
Just that the bulge is larger bore than the original bore diameter.
That says to me that pressure is still a force here. As in a barrel obstruction.
Maybe less so with black powder due to the explosive burn nature of it having less pressure at the muzzle.
O.

 

[windy]

Anybody still wondering about steel shot in frontstuffers? I did a workup on the stuff with a Pedersoli 10ga from Caboomboom's and components of various kinds, and went on to enjoy a lot of success with it. Almost published my findings--even had a buddy fly over from Hawaii to do a photo spread--but didn't manage to become rich and famous therefrom. Didn't even get it to a magazine. Not to be kickin' a dead horse here, but...
windy

 

[Sparkitoff]

Is anyone going to directly answer his questions? I got dizzy from the spinning rabbit trail responses. I'll try. Bismuth can be directly substituted for lead without filler. You don't need a plastic wad with Bismuth. Tungsten is usually coated or blended and different sources favor recommendation of plastic wad. Tungsten is more expensive than Bismuth at Roto Metals. Any other mixed alloy that is non-lead really needs a plastic shot cup (Tungsten-Matrix, Heavy-Shot, ITX). Bismuth #5 is what I use for waterfowl in the duck family and #2's for the goose family. Just load the same as your lead load with Bismuth. The weight is very similar to lead so you don't really need to change shot size, but if anything go up one size bigger.

 

[bigted]

I am a little curious concerning steel BB's in my smoothies.

I just happen to have built paper shot columns out of post-it paper. Like to get some knowledge concerning these paper "packages" filled with those steel BB's. Spose the paper will allow those steel bb's to scarify my bore?

 

[windy]

I'd say so, if you shoot more than a few. Best I found was the nylon wads for steel shot from Ballistic Products--I think they call them "TPS" wads. They don't melt nearly as bad as the soft plastic ones. You have to trim them down to the column size of your load--go very light, and heavy powder charge (my 10 ga shot 120gr of FFg under just 1 oz. of no.1 steel shot) to get my speed up to 1265-75), which is a killing load. I used no. 1 shot because a very experienced guide told me that was best for even small ducks, and would do for geese in a pinch. And definitely pattern your loads; you might be surprised where the center of your pattern hits--especially if you shoot a Pedersoli.
windy

 

[Rock Home Isle]

I know that a plastic wad allows for steel shot, from what I read from Zonie's post.

However, it seems to me . . . .and I may be wrong as I am just learning and building my first smoothbore now . . .that there is an option that can be shot through a smoothbore just like lead. . . I think it is tungsten . . is that correct or incorrect? Or is it bismuth that can be shot just like lead w/o harming our barrels ? Or is it none of the above? Do they all need a plastic wad? Just wondering what I need to buy if I want to try to hunt ducks with a smoothbore fowler.

Thanks

I played that game so many years ago.

My blackpowder smoothbores are not choked, so there is NO restriction at the muzzle to impede the passing of the shot as it leaves the bore…so I don’t worry about damage to my bore. If the damage is going to happen, it’s going to happen at the muzzle at the choke point.

Steel shot does not deform in the barrel, so shot patterns will be tighter, as compared to using lead shot. Lead shot deforms, the hardness of the shot determines the degree to which it deforms, but all lead shot deforms.

If you want a denser pattern for water fowl at a specific range, develop a load that uses more steel shot.

The one constant the really matters is 1500 ft per second. If your load will develop a velocity of AT LEAST 1500 ft per second, you are solid with steel BB, BBB, or T shot out to 40 yards on geese, which is what I hunt primarily, when it comes to waterfowl & smoke poles. For geese I swear by T shot, for ducks I use the same powder loads as geese, but I drop back to steel 4 & 5 shot and limit my shots to 30 to 35 yards.

 

[windy]

As I said above, 1250-1265 fps kills quite well; that was the performance level of steel factory loads for the first 10 years or so of steel shot requirements. Trying to get much higher will likely bust up your gun. I talked to the USA head of Pedersoli about this, back then; he was a waterfowler too, and in fact, he had shot with their European trap team as well. Of course, if you believe it takes a 338 to kill whitetails, or some whiz-bang new Weatherby to kill an elk, you'll probably want 1500 fps for green-wing teal. I agree that 1000 or 1050 fps is too light--I tried it for one whole season; the ducks exited laughing--but there's a limit for frontstuffers.
windy

 

[ezekiel]

Again th.e historian is spot on! I have hunted waterfowl since I was nine yrs. old and reloaded since I was sixteen. I have shot steel since it was introduced. I have never been able to get a good pattern with steel for any of my muzzle loading shotguns including my Pedersoli. I have tried Bp wads but cannot get good killing pattern.So I know bismuth is expensive but it will kill! I still limit my shots to 30 yrds. even on geese. It is important to know your guns limits! I will soon be 80 God willing, and by his grace I will still be able to hunt. This is just my humble opinion.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

Yeah I get it…steel is just finicky stuff to work with and use in a muzzleloader. Heck blackpowder smoothbores themselves are finicky to work with…If you don’t have a choke on the bore, that seems to help. And since steel projectiles don’t deform, my patterns are not bad. If I get consistent gaps, add a bit more shot… shoot a few more patterns, maybe add a bit of powder, etc.

I have found that those big fibre wads tend to blow patterns. Once I start to see that, I’ll start cutting those wads in half…then in half again, so on and so forth, until I start getting decent patterns again. I must admit though that I get my best patterns with just a thick over powder card and a thin over shot card.

For waterfowl, I really try to develop loads that give me good performance out to 40 yrds for geese. A good 1500 ft per second load of steel is so amazingly effective on geese at that range…hands down.

 

[Britsmoothy]

For waterfowl, I really try to develop loads that give me good performance out to 40 yrds for geese. A good 1500 ft per second load of steel is so amazingly effective on geese at that range…hands down.

So you are getting 1500fps from a muzzloadung shotgun?

 

[ezekiel]

That is amazing velocity. Have you chrono. your loads ? I have and never been able to get that velocity.