Still working up the 54 CVA Hawken load...

[adiochiro3]

So I've been to the range a couple of times since my first post, and am getting better results. Today started out promising; I am shooting .530 Hornady RB and -- on the advice of some here on MLF -- I upped my patch thickness from .010 to .015 and the results were:

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This is the group I'm hoping to eventually end up with at 100 yards. I moved the target in to 25 yards and used 80 grains 777 (I plan to hunt) with .020 (two .010) patches. The RB's were not too difficult to ram home. Here's the result:

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I was pleased, and moved the target back out to 50 yards with the same load and the group spread way more than I expected.

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I had my buddy -- who is an excellent shot -- spit a couple down range, and the spread was about the same as mine, so it appears to be either the load or the sight system (or both). I really don't like the rear sight on this gun, and I plan on changing it out or modifying it.

Should I try .535 RB's or up the patch thickness to .025? Other thoughts? Is there enough variation in the weight of the RB's to make a difference and produce "flyers?"

 

[redneck]

patch and ball size depends on rififleing depth. deep rifleing needs a he groups thich patch and smaller rb.
i have in 40 yrs i have never seen anyone use 25 th patch. if the rate of twist is 1 in 48 then those are good groups for hunting. check it and rifleing. if loading is real easy then try a 535
rb

 

[Chris Hayes]

Three years ago I bought a GPR and at first had the same results. I found out I had to do several things to bring the groups down acceptable to my standards. First
i shot and shot using different charges, patch thickness, and ball size. I finally came down to using 65 gr GOEX FFF, .535 hand cast ball, and a .015 CVA prelubed patch. This group at best was 1" at 25 yds from the bench. I then changed the sights to Lyman adjustables and went to a 3/4" group. I then used valve grinding compound to lap the barrel. I used a .50 brush from Cabelas and wrapped a piece of pillow ticking around it covering it with the compound. I attached a range rod to my cordless drill and ran it in and out. I cleaned the barrel over and over with water to remove the compound. at this point the group didn't change. I thought that was the best it could be(from the bench on a rest) till a buddy seen the muzzle jump from me not holding the forearm. I moved the rest out to the end of the stock and held directly behind it. BAM, 10 hole group you can cover with a quarter! Good luck and keep trying, you will get it.

 

[mooman76]

I wouldn't move the to a bigger ball and thicker patch at the same time. I'd try a thicker patch first to see if that helps. It's no fun getting a ball stuck part way down the barrel so take it one step at a time. If you need yet a thicker patch try some denim. Sometimes changing lube helps. What are you using for a lube?

 

[AllenHawken]

I moved the rest out to the end of the stock and held directly behind it.

I tried this today sending 30 shots downrange at 100 yards, with excellent results. In preparation for hunting season, I have been shooting using a rifle rest. Normally, I shoot offhand because that's the way we do it at the shooting matches I compete in. My offhand stance has my support hand close to the front of the trigger guard so I can hold my support arm tight against my side for stability. However, since I rest the rifle on something when hunting, I moved my support hand forward behind the rest and noticed the difference in accuracy at 100 yards.

 

[eaglesnester]

go to 85grains trip 7 with a 19thou patch and lots and lots of pure lard. Lots and lots, when you think you have enough put some more on the bore side and ram er home on the charge. Use a 530 ball. I can hit a 10inch gong off hand 100 meters 4 out of 5 times with my 54 cal 32 inch barrel Hawken cap lock with this load. Apparently the liberal use of lard helps make a better gas seal and keeps the fire, and flame away from the patch, preserving intergity of the patch as it and the ball speed down the barrel.

 

[adiochiro3]

patch and ball size depends on rififleing depth. deep rifleing needs a he groups thich patch and smaller rb.
i have in 40 yrs i have never seen anyone use 25 th patch. if the rate of twist is 1 in 48 then those are good groups for hunting. check it and rifleing. if loading is real easy then try a 535
rb

Thanks, RJ. Yes, it is a 1:48 twist, but I believe I have not gotten everything out of this barrel that I can. I thought a 0.25 patch sounded crazy, but Mooman76 recommended I use denim in my experiments. I'm thinking the .535 ball may be the way to go...

I thought that was the best it could be(from the bench on a rest) till a buddy seen the muzzle jump from me not holding the forearm. I moved the rest out to the end of the stock and held directly behind it. BAM, 10 hole group you can cover with a quarter! Good luck and keep trying, you will get it.

Reload, I think my shooting form is OK (so does my buddy), but as I mentioned, I think different sights are in order. I can't get a good focus on the rear sight...(eyes are getting a bit old). :shake: I will have Dave check for muzzle jump on our next trip. Thanks for the encouragement.

I wouldn't move the to a bigger ball and thicker patch at the same time. I'd try a thicker patch first to see if that helps. It's no fun getting a ball stuck part way down the barrel so take it one step at a time. If you need yet a thicker patch try some denim. Sometimes changing lube helps. What are you using for a lube?

Thanks, Mooman76. I never change more than one variable at a time when working up any load; don't want to get lost in the weeds and go loco! :youcrazy: I am using pre-lubed patches; eaglesnester recommends a lot of lard in the next post. I may try that in my next trip to the range.

go to 85grains trip 7 with a 19thou patch and lots and lots of pure lard. Lots and lots, when you think you have enough put some more on the bore side and ram er home on the charge. Use a 530 ball. I can hit a 10inch gong off hand 100 meters 4 out of 5 times with my 54 cal 32 inch barrel Hawken cap lock with this load. Apparently the liberal use of lard helps make a better gas seal and keeps the fire, and flame away from the patch, preserving intergity of the patch as it and the ball speed down the barrel.

Sounds like a good idea, eaglesnester. Also sounds messy! :shocked2: Do you pre-lube those or set 'em up one at a time on the shooting bench?

 

[nchawkeye]

You need to find the spent patches and see what they look like...777 is hotter than real bp and often burns the patches, ruining groups...

I had a buddy that had one of those guns, I set it up with some home cast .530 balls, .018 ticking patch lubed with SnoSeal and 80grs of FFF Goex...

I'm also not real big on prelubed patches...I buy bulk pillow ticking or you could order dry ticking from Track in .018 thickness...

But until you look at your shot patches, you are guessing as to what is going on....

 

[VEARL]

In my 54 cal. I shoot a .530 RB patched with a lubed .015 cotton patch. I shoot 80 Gr. of Goex 3 F powder. In between patched RB and the powder I seat a fiber wad (or another patch). That extra patch seems to help any burn buy of the RB patching.
Try it and see if that doesn't help you groups.

 

[adiochiro3]

You need to find the spent patches and see what they look like...777 is hotter than real bp and often burns the patches, ruining groups...

I had a buddy that had one of those guns, I set it up with some home cast .530 balls, .018 ticking patch lubed with SnoSeal and 80grs of FFF Goex...

I'm also not real big on prelubed patches...I buy bulk pillow ticking or you could order dry ticking from Track in .018 thickness...

But until you look at your shot patches, you are guessing as to what is going on....

I would love to find a local source for Goex and give that a try. Finding patches at a busy range is not easy; I've looked and have yet to find one that is definitively mine. I will order some ticking and lubes to experiment with this week. Thanks for the advice.

In my 54 cal. I shoot a .530 RB patched with a lubed .015 cotton patch. I shoot 80 Gr. of Goex 3 F powder. In between patched RB and the powder I seat a fiber wad (or another patch). That extra patch seems to help any burn buy of the RB patching.
Try it and see if that doesn't help you groups.

Sounds like a good intermediate step. How thick is that fiber wad? Thanks!

 

[Hawgeye]

Try spreading an old bedsheet about fifteen to twenty feet in front of your shooting position. If you can't sneak one away from the wife, a light weight blue plastic tarp will work as well. That worked for me till I switched to blue striped pillow ticking for patches.

 

[nchawkeye]

Yep, put a tarp in front of the muzzle and catch them...You can walk up about 10 steps, lay the tarp down and raise the far end about 4 feet off the ground to help catch them...

As far as finding real black powder what I've found is many just don't look in the right places...

 

[eaglesnester]

set em up one at a time I use a 1 inch strip of dennem chambray off a shirt at 19thou. I grease up my patch off a empty musket cap tin filled with plain old salt free lard. (pig fat). I cut the patch to size with my patch knife after setting my my 530 ball just inside the muzzle. The heavy use of lard makes for a good gas seal. My twist is 1-66. This also works for a 1 in 48 as my T/C 50 cal is 1 in 48. I use a 22 thou patch in good quality muzzlen and a 490 ball, and yes it is hard to push er down the bore onto the charge but she does go down. Shoots pretty accurate. :thumbsup:

 

[adiochiro3]

Try spreading an old bedsheet about fifteen to twenty feet in front of your shooting position. If you can't sneak one away from the wife, a light weight blue plastic tarp will work as well. That worked for me till I switched to blue striped pillow ticking for patches.

Yep, put a tarp in front of the muzzle and catch them...You can walk up about 10 steps, lay the tarp down and raise the far end about 4 feet off the ground to help catch them...

As far as finding real black powder what I've found is many just don't look in the right places...

Thanks, guys! I've had a hellofa time with this. I will check with the rangemasters and make sure it's OK. nchawkeye, what are the "right places?"

 

[adiochiro3]

set em up one at a time I use a 1 inch strip of dennem chambray off a shirt at 19thou. I grease up my patch off a empty musket cap tin filled with plain old salt free lard. (pig fat). I cut the patch to size with my patch knife after setting my my 530 ball just inside the muzzle. The heavy use of lard makes for a good gas seal. My twist is 1-66. This also works for a 1 in 48 as my T/C 50 cal is 1 in 48. I use a 22 thou patch in good quality muzzlen and a 490 ball, and yes it is hard to push er down the bore onto the charge but she does go down. Shoots pretty accurate. :thumbsup:

Sound good. Do you just wipe the patch on the lard and leave it dry on the ball side, or do you smear it on to both sides of the patch with your fingers?

 

[mooman76]

I just wipe lube on the side of the patch that will be touching the barrel. No need for the other side. It's not going to dry so just use it.

 

[nchawkeye]

Hard to tell not knowing your area or what stores are around...Often you have to ask the right person as they can't put it out on a shelf it has to be stored properly...

Here in NC I go direct to the distributor but Bass Pro also stocks, it's quite a bit higher though...

btw...Since this is in the flintlock forum, Pyrodex is fine in a cap lock...I have never owned a percussion so I use the real thing in all my muzzleloaders...