Stock Carvings

[ronnie_kennedy]

Along with building my first Pennsylvania, i would like to incorporate some relief carving on the stock and around the tang, lock plate, etc. What types of tools would i need to do this? Does it take a bunch of specialty tools or can it be done without buying a bunch of items? Also, i would love to see pics of the different methods of carving you have done!

 

[Rifleman1776]

'cuse the direct candor....but if you need to ask what tools you need to carve a stock, you are not qualified to carve a stock.
First you need to learn to carve. There are many suppliers of carving tools and 'how-to' books. I suggest you spend some time learning the basics.
Stock carving, especially relief, is an advanced form of wood carving.
Without knowing what you are doing it would be very easy to turn an expensive stock into firewood.

 

[user 922]

Amen to that. There are so many things that need to be considered by a first time builder and done correctly, that carving should be the furthest thing from your mind. Concentrate on avoiding fat lock panels, a flat forearm, poorly shaped cheekpiece, bad inletting and clunky stock shape along with many other details. These are easily overlooked by a beginning (and impatient) builder that'll result in a poorly finished gun no matter how much carving is applied - and bad carving will only make it worse.

Remember that the old (and new) masters spent many years learning and perfecting their craft.

 

[kaintuck]

i like my 1/8" gouge the best...then the angled ones, the the...........ahhh, well...there is about a dozen I like to use.....

and sandpaper........LOTS of sandpaper......

 

[Robby]

Ronnie, I agree with Bucksco, those are very important features to be aware of and can make or break an otherwise nice gun. As far as carving, a more than adequate job can be done with a bench knife, a good quality set of paring chisels, and some scrapers, all kept razor sharp. There are chisels specifically crafted for the use in carving like those sold at Woodcrafters Supply, including basic sets that will give you four or five of the most commonly used chisels used in low relief carving. The composition and layout of carving is every bit as important as the carving itself.
Robby

 

[hoochiepapa]

Ronnie, this is only my second attempt at stock carving. You may copy it if you like, then you have a pattern. the thing to remember on stock carving is to lower the surround evenly and make it look like the rest of the stock around it is lower. It's not hard to do, just time consuming. I use small files I found at Woodcraft stores, and I bought cheap carving chisels there, too. You have to know how to sharpen, and like the guys here say, they have to be scary sharp.
Keep asking questions, and practice on pieces of wood, preferably maple.

 

[DUSTY 14]

build your gun heavy ie leave some wood where you want to carve. stain it and keep LOTS of extra stain. varnish finish so the oil doesn't soak in deep. shoot and enjoy while you learn to carve. start on pine then work to hardwood of the same as your stock. then spend next winter sanding of that
old finish,carve it, restain, then put a good finish. i did and you cannot tell year one from year two

 

[jdkerstetter]

Likely a first build will be too heavy anyway....heck even many of today's seasoned builders leave 'em too heavy....so leaving even more wood for future carving is not necessary.

Examining original longrifles will reveal that the low relief carving rarely excedes 1/32" anyway....it's like it's hardly even there....barely standing above the field. Too many builders leave it way too proud.

As far as learning to do relief carving on pine, I feel the learning curve could be shortened by getting chunks of maple if that is their intended stock wood. Buy some maple and shape the surface to a curve simular to that you would find on a rifle, draw in a design and begin.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[AWsaddles]

I dont know what sizes my chisels are but I bought a set from MBS several years ago that contained 8 different sizes and shapes, they were made in the USA . The trick is make sure they are sharp and keep them that way. It takes practice but it can be done by a beginner . Draw your pattern on paper many times before you put it on the stock, then put it on the stock and leave it for a few days before you start, your mind might change. Here is the first attempt on my second rifle and although it could use some refinement on the next, I think it adds to the over all look as opposed to detracting. Others may feel differently .

Looking back on my first build I left so
Much extra wood that I could probably carve it , sand it off and carve it again and it would still look chunky . :hmm: :wink:

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

I definately think that carving does add to the overall look. I plan on doing lots more reasearch and practice before i take it to my rifle. Too expensive to go in with no practice. Thank you to those that offered encouragement and help.

 

[MSW]

look at what Peter Alexander says in his book The Gunsmith of Grenville County ... but you don't need nearly all of the chisels he suggests (in my opinion)

i would recommend you get some maple and do a bunch of carving before you even start to draw on your stock- to do otherwise would invite disaster.

good luck with your build!

 

[Birddog6]

Along with building my first Pennsylvania, i would like to incorporate some relief carving on the stock and around the tang, lock plate, etc. What types of tools would i need to do this? Does it take a bunch of specialty tools or can it be done without buying a bunch of items? Also, i would love to see pics of the different methods of carving you have done!

My advice is to forget the carving & learn to build first. You will have more than enough to contend with without adding the carving issues. After you have 4-5 good solid builds with few or no errors, then work on carving one. Carving on a rifle is a Accent..... Poorly done it hinders the looks, rather than accents it.

Keith Lisle

 

[nchawkeye]

Along with building my first Pennsylvania, i would like to incorporate some relief carving on the stock and around the tang, lock plate, etc. What types of tools would i need to do this? Does it take a bunch of specialty tools or can it be done without buying a bunch of items? Also, i would love to see pics of the different methods of carving you have done!

My advice is to forget the carving & learn to build first. You will have more than enough to contend with without adding the carving issues. After you have 4-5 good solid builds with few or no errors, then work on carving one. Carving on a rifle is a Accent..... Poorly done it hinders the looks, rather than accents it.

Keith Lisle

Sound advice there, before my first build I also wanted to try relief carving...I was told to buy the best piece of curly maple and let God decorate it...

That's what I did...

 

[jdkerstetter]

.... Carving on a rifle is a Accent..... Poorly done it hinders the looks, rather than accents it.

Keith Lisle

You said a mouth full there. Good advice.

Gun building, carving and engraving are each individual skills. Each takes many, many hours of practice. Try to master one skill at a time.

You may spend 100+ hours building your first or even first few guns. That much practice should be spent on each of the other skills...(off gun, pieces of wood and brass are cheap)...before you mess up something you spent that much time building. Not to mention the added tools you need to do each of these. But ultimately, it's your time and money, do what you will with it.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[TinStar]

Before I decided to build I bought Gunsmith of Grenville County and read it. I wanted a rifle orinally and decided to try some carving on hard maple 4"x4" blocks. Did about a dozen or so and then decided on a smoothbore trade gun for its versatility. And because I wasn't too impressed with my carving to take a chance on screwing up a nice piece of wood. So the trade gun taught me alot; and maybe the next build will be a rifle with carving(after a dozen or two more practice blocks )

TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!

 

[jdkerstetter]

....and after how much money in carving tools and sharpening stones???? Good carving tools aren't cheap.

Not to say good carving can't be done with cheap tools but you better be good at sharpening as they don't hold an edge very long.

Just my two cents, J.D.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I bought cheap carving chisels

Mike,nothing to do with your carving, it is beautiful. Not many folks could do that on their second attempt. I gave up carving as an avocation because after many attempts I had to admit I am just plain no good at it.
However, I did learn a thing or three about tools. :shocked2:
Many of the "cheap" carving tools on the market have very short tangs. This means when putting pressure on them while carving they can break and snap through. This has very dangerous implications.I inherited several dozen such carving tools and discarded them all rather than risk using or having them end up with someone else using. Mine, even though not often used anymore, are high quality and dependable.

 

[David Jones]

You can buy a great set of palm engraving chisels from "Flexcut" that are real good quality, and perfect for new carvers starting out. Plus they won't cost you an arm and a leg like "two cherry's" or "Pfiel"

you can find them on Ebay or amazon, in 6 piece 11 and 26 piece sets.

hope that helps.

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

It does, i appreciate it Buck!

 

[Rifleman1776]

You can buy a great set of palm engraving chisels from "Flexcut" that are real good quality, and perfect for new carvers starting out. Plus they won't cost you an arm and a leg like "two cherry's" or "Pfiel"

you can find them on Ebay or amazon, in 6 piece 11 and 26 piece sets.

hope that helps.

If one plans to do a lot of carving, there is a huge caveat about using palm chisles.
They put pressure right on the nerves in the palm of the hand. There is a medical term for that area. It doesn't take a whole lot of time before those nerves get damaged and deadened to where there is no sense of feel or flexibility of the hand. Our area has a large carving club and I know a lot of carvers whose dominant hand has become basically a claw, otherwise useless. For the occasional carver or simple detail work the palm chisles are (maybe) OK but, personally, I advise staying away from them.