Stock Layout Question

[RobertE]

Taking the plunge and working on my first plank build and have a layout question.
I’m using a TOTW plan but the barrel I’m using is 13/16” instead of the 15/16” barrel used in the plans, on top of that I’ll be using a 5/16” ramrod instead of the 3\8” on the plans.
Probably an obvious answer, but where should I subtract from my stock outline to fit my barrel and ramrod without throwing the flow of the wrist off? I took off 1/16” at the top and raised the bottom of the barrel in the plans 1/16” also. Basically split the difference. Then between the smaller ramrod and the raised lower barrel line, the fore end is now 1/8” slimmer. I think I can also raise the forearm close to that amount without it looking wonky.
Does this make sense, or should I just ditch the plans and layout the plank with my barrel and lock? Just thought I should check before I break the saws out.
Thanks, Bob

 

[rich pierce]

Ditch the plans. Use them as a general guide but cut the stock outline to fit the parts. Draw the barrel on the plank. I do not cut anything but the cut for the barrel and tang inlet at this point until the barrel is in.

Then set the thickness of the fore-end web at the muzzle and the thickness you want above the ramrod hole at the breech. Draw that straight line to establish the web all along the barrel. Then, accounting for web thickness plus some for the sides of the ramrod groove,,saw the fore-end in front of the entry thimble only. Make the ramrod groove and drill the ramrod hole.
Then locate the lock where the pan centers just in front of the breechplug and figure out the lock positioning and then the trigger.
Only then do I start cutting the stock outline from buttplate to entry thimble.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Bob,
Always listen to Rich Pierce. In addition to what Rich wrote you are going to have a challenge because you decided to use a 13/16" barrel. While you can make the forestock very slim with that barrel, you are going to struggle making the wrist and lock area look good. The wrist is just going to be very thin or your rifle will have the cross section of a 2x4 with the corners rounded over. What lock are you using?

dave

 

[Norman Brooks]

What rich pierce say's is spot on. Another thing is if you are using two lock bolt the front one has to go thru the web area which will dictate where the front of the lock is located...

 

[RobertE]

My plan was an SMR. .36 caliber. I’ve got a Chambers Late Ketland lock and was going for a slim rifle. 14” pull. Single lock bolt. 1/8” web. Planning on rounding off rear of lock. I do have a couple of other Rice barrels, 44” A weight and a 42” Southern Profile for future builds, but I thought I would start with a straight.
I did draw out a plan using my barrel dimensions and it doesn’t look bad on paper, Not the greatest pics, but I can do more. Approximate lock and trigger locations. Trigger plate will need quite a bit of shortening and a little massaging. Line drawn on bottom of forearm tracing would be used to account for smaller barrel and ramrod.
Bob

Bob

 

[RobertE]

I will probably follow Rich’s suggestions, cut blank for barrel, inlet, then go from there. Will just rough cut buttstock leaving plenty of meat to get rid of some initial bulk.
Bob

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Hi Bob,
Always listen to Rich Pierce. In addition to what Rich wrote you are going to have a challenge because you decided to use a 13/16" barrel. While you can make the forestock very slim with that barrel, you are going to struggle making the wrist and lock area look good. The wrist is just going to be very thin or your rifle will have the cross section of a 2x4 with the corners rounded over. What lock are you using?

dave

Bob, glad to see you taking the plunge!! I would like to add to Dave's good advice. My first build was also a 13/16" barrel, and had to deal with the skimpy wrist issue. I soldered a very thin tapered shim to the backside of the lock plate. If you put the shim on properly, it will kick the lock outward on the back end. Do some sketches with shim angles and you will come up with a proper wrist size that blends with the nice slim barrel.
Keep us posted.
Larry

 

[brushyspoons]

I'm also building my first rifle from a blank like Bob, and it's also going to be a small caliber SMR with a skinny barrel, and it looks like we were both planning to work off of TOTW's Tennessee rifle plans. I ran into the same problem with the vertical profile of the wrist of the plan drawing being much larger than what I calculated my final wrist height ending up at the breech should be, so I scrapped the buttstock profile from the drawing and went ahead with a buttstock profile from a Soddy-Daisy rifle with a 13/16" breech instead. That solved the vertical profile problem, but now this thread has me questioning how the panels and wrist will look from the top/bottom.

I'm using a Kibler Ketland lock, which looks very similar to Bob's Chambers Late Ketland. I'm not sure how thick the Chambers lock is, but I measured mine out to be 15/64" between the bolster (is that the right term?) and face of the rear of the lock face. Now with my 3/4" breech this leaves me with ~1 1/4" between the panels. The rifle I'm sort of following has a wrist width of 1 1/8" at the narrowest, is 1/16" between the panels and wrist enough? I'm not so sure that will look good, but I will rely on the wisdom of those who have built far more rifles than me to be the judge of that.

Larry's advice of soldering on a tapered shim to the lock plate is interesting as it appears this Soddy Daisy rifle has plates that have a very slight outward flare towards the rear, but I'm not sure how that would play with the head of the bolt for the frizzen. Do you have to match the contour of the pan and fence to avoid any powder accumulating in any gaps that could result if you don't?

Bob, I hope I'm not hijacking your thread, but it seems we're both in similar boats with our builds and hopefully any answers can help us both out.

Thanks,
Phil

 

[RobertE]

No problem, Phil. The more the merrier as far as I’m concerned. My Chambers lock measures right around 15/64” also. That works out to about 1-9/32” or so lock panel width if my calculations are right.
The shim idea is interesting, might not take much. Plus 1/32” at the rear of the breech plate may kick the tail of the lock out 1/16”, which would add 1/8” total to the wrist width. It would take some experimenting.
I did just go through my copy of Randall Pierces Kentucky Rifles of the Smoky Mountains book and there are a few rifles with 13/16” breeches, including the Soddy you mentioned.
I have drawings for a Zacharia Luster rifle that has a .720 ! breech. The lock panels on it are 1-1/4” wide and the wrist tight behind is about 1”, so it was done before.
Looks like I‘ll go Richs route, just cut out and inlet for the barrel and work from there.
Bob

 

[brushyspoons]

Randall Pierce's book is where I found the Soddy Daisy rifle I'm sort of following, hopefully this is a case of great minds thinking alike!
I think I'll forge on ahead without trying to use a shim this time, I'm not sure I've earned the stripes to be messing with Kibler perfection quite yet. The tang I'm working with is fairly thick and I plan on having it run all the way to the nose of the comb similar to that rifle #7 from Pierce's book, so hopefully that should help reinforce such a thin wrist. Maybe one day down the line I'll try to replicate that Soddy Daisy when I'm a more competent builder and have some better facilities for building.
Phil

 

[RobertE]

Good luck Phil, I’m with you on just going ahead and seeing what happens. I’ve got the bandsaw ready and the top line of the stock forearm laid out so it’s go time. I finished fitting a long tang to the barrel a couple days ago, so I’m gonna run at least two, possibly three screws in it. I’ll see how things look when I get there.
I’m also starting with a pretty plain piece of maple on this one, (meaning cheap), cause I’m anticipating making mistakes and hopefully learning as I go.

Bob

 

[The Crisco Kid]

Another option is to draw a full scale plan to fit your parts on a piece of meat wrapping paper. Once you get everything to fit you can transfer it to the blank.