Stock Pietta 1858 .44 Chrono results w/8" barrel

[Kansas Kid]

Thanks, good data. Did the 30gr pyro P shoot the best ? Is that why you have some inch figures below the data?

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I got caps!

can I push this to 37 or 40 gr, what is the ceiling?

 

[PastorB]

Thanks, good data. Did the 30gr pyro P shoot the best ? Is that why you have some inch figures below the data?

I got caps!

can I push this to 37 or 40 gr, what is the ceiling?

The most accurate load was the 35 gr. 3f Swiss, though there was little difference between loads. Those numbers I just forgot to delete when I copied and pasted. That gun has never been really accurate, about 3"-4" at 25 yards from a rest, and always right and low with round balls. The higher the velocity, the lower it hits. Surprisingly my Colt repros are much more accurate (1"-1 5"), despite the lack of a solid frame and the hammer rear sight. And they are all Pietta's, the Colt and Remington repros. My 1858 "Sheriff's Model" is not accurate at all, 6" or so, while my 1851 Sheriff's Navy (.44) shoots light out. Still, if I had to rely upon one gun, my 8" Remington would get the nod. Just much more reliable and durable in experience. But for fun, I still prefer by a wide margin, the look and feel of the Colt clones.

To the second question, you can safely put as much powder in that will still allow you to seat the ball. Safe, however, doesn't mean optimum of better. You will not blow up your gun, but recoil sucks, accuracy suffers, and you will get very little velocity increase. I know, I have shot over a chronograph for decades. If raw power is your desire, a moderate load under a conical is the way to go. 25 grains of powder under a conical will give more energy at the muzzle than 40 grains under a round ball, and will carry that energy much more efficiently down range. Chronographs don't lie, but advertised ballistics often do.

 

[45D]

I got caps!

can I push this to 37 or 40 gr, what is the ceiling?

The ceiling is way more than you can pack in that cylinder!! You can't overload a cap gun with bp.

 

[tc45dave]

I am using 25gr of Olde Eynsford 3f so my velocities must barely be over 900 fps.

 

[Pete453]

900 fps is nothing to sneeze at, especially with conicals, dont take those loads lightly. At appropriate range, that will lay out anything you should be shooting at with that gun.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

Great data.
Could you do the same with .36?
Preferably with a 1851 colt navy.

 

[PastorB]

Great data.
Could you do the same with .36?
Preferably with a 1851 colt navy.

I actually started to do that just recently, but some fellas saw me shooting and started talking, and that was the end of that. Not that I minded, I enjoy talking about old guns. Here is a partial list, I still got a couple of powders to try, and some conical bullets also. 27 grains with a rb is barely loadable in my gun, my standard charge is the 23 gr. When I complete my results, I will start a dedicated thread.

Pietta 1851 .36 Navy

23 gr. Swiss 3F

1021
972
1018
1041
1050
1001

1016 avg.

27 gr. Swiss 3f

1086
1084
1052
1095
1112
1062

1062 avg.

27 gr. Goex 3F

1006
1000
993
1003
1011
1034

1008 avg.

23 gr. Goex 3F

980
968
953
980
1003
966

980 avg.

23 gr. Pyro RS

993
989
959
946
938
978

967 avg.

 

[TrapperDude]

I actually started to do that just recently, but some fellas saw me shooting and started talking, and that was the end of that. Not that I minded, I enjoy talking about old guns. Here is a partial list, I still got a couple of powders to try, and some conical bullets also. 27 grains with a rb is barely loadable in my gun, my standard charge is the 23 gr. When I complete my results, I will start a dedicated thread.

Pietta 1851 .36 Navy

23 gr. Swiss 3F

1021
972
1018
1041
1050
1001

1016 avg.

27 gr. Swiss 3f

1086
1084
1052
1095
1112
1062

1062 avg.

27 gr. Goex 3F

1006
1000
993
1003
1011
1034

1008 avg.

23 gr. Goex 3F

980
968
953
980
1003
966

980 avg.

23 gr. Pyro RS

993
989
959
946
938
978

967 avg.

You're getting pretty close to 30gr with some of those loads. Is that close to the max chamber capacity?

 

[PastorB]

You're getting pretty close to 30gr with some of those loads. Is that close to the max chamber capacity?

27 grains is absolutely the max in MY gun. The ball will only seat below the cylinder face with way more effort than I like. I don't shoot max loads, I just did it experimentally. 23 grains does what a .36 navy was designed to do. Notice there is very little velocity gain with 27 vs. 23 grains, but the battering of the wedge and blown off caps, dropping into the action are very real negatives in using max loads. For conical shooting, I will drop down to 18 grains.

 

[45D]

Only loose wedges get battered.
The pressures for loose powder and ball are around 11K psi - 13K psi and yes, wedges can get bent with those pressures.

This '60 Army wedge has perfect edges and has seen right at 400 rounds of 21K - 23K psi ammo pushing 220gr. and 230gr. jacketed conicals.

Mike

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

27 grains is absolutely the max in MY gun. The ball will only seat below the cylinder face with way more effort than I like. I don't shoot max loads, I just did it experimentally. 23 grains does what a .36 navy was designed to do. Notice there is very little velocity gain with 27 vs. 23 grains, but the battering of the wedge and blown off caps, dropping into the action are very real negatives in using max loads. For conical shooting, I will drop down to 18 grains.

I just spent the day with my Colt 1851 .36 and tried different loadings. All shots were with a ball and felt wad. 30grs absolutely fills the chamber to the top, so that's that. I normally shoot 20grs and I get plenty of velocity. In addition it is more economical with 20grs and it won't stress my expensive Uberti. You definatly get a bigger bang with 25, but why do it? If I want/need a more powerful load, I take my Remington 1858 .44 along with a load of 35grs and wad/rb. I usually carry it cross draw in my sxs.

 

[William Lincoln]

Some 38spl rounds do not equal the energies we see recorded with these loads. This
reminds us of the need to maintain these older style revolvers. Safety is key.
Never point a loaded C&B revolver at anything you do not want to shoot/kill and
have the mechanics of these old style revolvers checked by a competent smith,
as they are many times off as to timing and/or alignments. These are serious
weapons , which adds to their all over value should they ever be pressed into
defensive service. Thanks for compiling this interesting data.

 

[TDM]

Really enjoy seeing this data @PastorB, thanks for posting.

 

[M. De Land]

1858 rem. 8" chrono if anyone cares.

Factory stock pietta 8" .44
.454 rb, CCI #11 caps, crisco over ball
Zero malfunctions or cap jams. accuracy about the same for all loads, 3" groups at 25 yards. All rb groups low (3-5", lower the higher the fps) and 2" right. Conical load zero elev. 2" right.

30 gr. Pyro RS. Avg. 955. Ext. Spread 151 fps

965
908
981
1047
933
896

35 gr. Pyro RS. 1065 fps. Ext. Spread 114 fps

1093
1045
1128
1059
1015
1055

35gr. 777 3f 1185 fps ext Spread 109 fps

1247
1203
1195
1151
1177
1138

35 Swiss. 3f 1089 fps. Ext Spread 86 fps

1095
1074
1097
1136
1083
1050

30 gr. Swiss 3f 1004 fps. Ext Spread 25 fps

1014
1001
992
1013
1018
989

30 Gr. Pyro P. 999 fps. Ext. Spread 74 fps
1013
971
962
1024
1036
993

3" 2" 2" r

35gr. Pyro P. 1097 fps ext Spread 56 fps

1110
1100
1127
1091
1071
1085

200 gr. Conical 25 pyro P. 975 fps. Ext Spread 20 fps

973
965
983
981
984
964

That triple 7 load is as fast or faster than a traditional full power Walker punch, isn't it ?

 

[M. De Land]

Only loose wedges get battered.
The pressures for loose powder and ball are around 11K psi - 13K psi and yes, wedges can get bent with those pressures.

View attachment 184067

View attachment 184068

This '60 Army wedge has perfect edges and has seen right at 400 rounds of 21K - 23K psi ammo pushing 220gr. and 230gr. jacketed conicals.

Mike

And soft ones !