Stock shape help

[kruzer1]

Hello folks, now that I have decent 16th century barrel lathed I am moving onto the stock. I have a nice piece of apple wood ready to be carved

My goal is a late 16th century miquelet pistol. As far as I know there are no survivors from that time period but written documentation that they existed.

So to "guess", what would be a good stock shape? I know styles changed slowly so I would also be willing to look at early 17th century pieces. Just seeing if anyone else out here has walked this path or has some suggestions.

In the absence of a real model, I want it to look plausible and feel "right".

Thanks!

 

[kruzer1]

Perhaps I should ask if anyone has done or is doing 16th century projects?

I guess I don't mind "trailblazing" if I'm one of the only ones trying to build 16th century firearms- but no use asking the forum questions or asking feedback. Being different is kind of fun

 

[Tinker2]

Maybe if you “guess” and draw something out then post the drawing here you might get some ideas.
You have the barrel made and you have the lock. I would trace out the outline of your stock blank on a
Piece of paper, then trace the barrels outline on the paper where it will fit in the stock. Same with the lock.
Draw in the remainder
When you have a rough draft post that picture and ask.

Someone may know or have some advice.
William Alexander

 

[ChrisPer]

Alternatively, post a pic or link or reference to a later version that has some characteristics of your intended piece.

 

[kruzer1]

Alternatively, post a pic or link or reference to a later version that has some characteristics of your intended piece.

Here's a miquelet from 1675 I was looking at - although I am working with a longer barrel

Here is a wheel lock from the late 1500's (the period I am aiming for). I was thinking of blending these two guns together- to make a 1580's miquelet (obviously trimmer stock but the "pommel" would have similiar lines)

 

[dave_person]

Hi Kruzer,
The German puffer is probably not appropriate. Below are some photos of Spanish pistols. The first 2 were made by the Marquardts for Charles V of Spain and are dated 1534 and 1540. The next is a Spanish wheellock from the early 17th century and the last is a Spanish lock gun from the same time period. Spanish makers were very conservative so the stock styles of the 17th century pistols may well have benn used in the 16th century.

dave

 

[kruzer1]

Thanks Dave- you've been a great help on my research a few times!

I like the bottom one, as it has similar lines to the Petronel I am planning for my 2nd project. (although I have a longer barrel profile for my pistol- 12 1/2" so I might have to modify it a bit).

Do you think they were using barrel bands late 16th century? Just asking, as otherwise I can see about using pins.

James/ Kruzer1

 

[rickystl]

Hi James. Sounds like an interesting project. I too like early Spanish firearms. And agreed, the bottom one Dave posted (Dave's always a big help) would look great.
If you don't already have it, I would recommend you get a copy of "History of Spanish Firearms" by James D. Lavin (1965), now out of print. But there is a used one available on Amazon now. It's $99.00 and would have to ship from the U.K., but would be well worth the purchase. One day soon, there won't be any available.
I am also planing a slender Spanish long gun utilizing the 1650's Miquelet lock from TRS.
It appears that the EARLY Spanish guns used barrel pins, with barrel bands coming later. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[kruzer1]

Thank you for the good picture!

- I have a miquelet lock kit from one of the small pistols from the rifle shoppe that I am using.

It is very time consuming to hand file everything but I think it will be well worth the effort

Thanks also on the book suggestion. In another month or two hopefully it will be around. Wife and kids would not be happy if I bought that right now

 

[dave_person]

Hi Kruzer,
I have a lot of reference books and materials, and sometimes I forget what I have. Thinking about your project, I found my copy of J. F. Hayward's "Art of the Gunmaker Vol 1", which covers European guns from their invention until 1650. Hayward has individual chapters devoted to early Spanish guns. According to Hayward, as sourced by a 17th century Spanish treatise on gunmaking (Alonzo Martinez de Espinar), the miquelet or Spanish lock probably was developed at the end of the 16th or beginning of the 17th century. There are no known examples before the 17th century and the earliest Spanish miquelet-like "snaplock" is from the late 16th century. That snaplock has elements similar to the classic Spanish lock but it is more primitive. It is mounted, by the way, on a long gun stocked in the Catalan style. Simon Marquardt "the younger" is credited by Espinar and by Isidro Soler's 18th century manuscript, as the inventor of the Spanish lock. He was born sometime between 1570 and 1580 and was still alive in 1644 when Espinar wrote his manuscript. Gunmakers in southern Italy made a slightly different snaplock very similar to the Spanish lock during the mid 16th century. Southern Italy was ruled by Spain for much of the 16th and 17th centuries and thus the Marquardts probably became familiar with snaplocks from the Italians. The younger Marquardt then went on to perfect the Spanish version around 1600.

The upshot is that the photos that Ricky and I provided probably represent pretty suitable examples of what the earliest Spanish lock pistols might have looked like. I also agree with Ricky about pins rather than bands.

dave

PS Thanks Ricky for the compliment but you are a pretty darn good resource yourself.

 

[Tinker2]

I have a miquelet lock kit from one of the small pistols from the rifle shoppe that I am using.

If it helps:
To the best of my knowledge the Rifle Shoppe lock kit you have is the # 667
I hope that may help anyone trying to help you.

I found a copy of History of Spanish Firearms for $35. at. http://www.amazon.com/history-Spanish-firearms-Arco-library/dp/B0007DYYRK

I like basic shape of the bottom gun that Dave posted.


William Alexander

 

[kruzer1]

Tinker2 has been a great help at getting me started in these projects! I hope to learn a lot from his sage advice. :thumbsup:

At this point I could not pass up the book- it must have just been listed because I checked all over last night and could not find a copy under $100. That will be a great reference as I have been hitting a lot of dead ends with google. Sometimes old school books are best- so it is ordered :grin:

Thanks again everyone! Will keep you updated on my progress but I have a lot to do!

(PS: I have the miquette lock from TRS thanks to tinker2, a custom lathed barrel, and also a nice piece of applewood for the stock- so far so good!)