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Stock staining methods and finished results
- Thread starter rootnuke
- Start date
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I visited www.birchwoodcasey.com and the only stain they listed in their product catalog was Walnut. I did a search of their site for "stain" and all it came up with was "Walnut" :: So far no Maple stain to be had.
I stopped by the local sporting goods store and all they had was Walnut stain!:cry:
It must be a walnut conspiracy!
I "googled" around and all I came up with was this forum and my own post with yours truly moaning about he fact that I can't find Brichwood Casey Maple stain...
Does anyone know where to get Birchwood Casey Maple Stain?
I stopped by the local sporting goods store and all they had was Walnut stain!:cry:
It must be a walnut conspiracy!
I "googled" around and all I came up with was this forum and my own post with yours truly moaning about he fact that I can't find Brichwood Casey Maple stain...
Does anyone know where to get Birchwood Casey Maple Stain?
rootnuke: Sounds like BC doesn't make the Maple any more.
IMO it's too bad they don't still make the Colonial Brown any more either, but, I guess that's progress?
As I mentioned before, I am trying several different shades of BEHLEN Master SOLAR-LUX stains.
These are alcohol based and won't raise the grain.
The 3 different colors I have are Medium Brown Walnut, Medium Brown Mahogany and Brown Maple.
For my likes, my first experiment says when applying 2 coats of each color to a piece of CM, the Mahogany is too red. The Walnut is "looks about like a walnut stock would look" and the Maple is just...Brown.
2 coats of Walnut plus 1 coat of Mahogany is still a bit too red, and the three coats together are getting rather dark.
I think I will try 3 coats of Maple and 1 coat of thinned Mahogany next. I'll keep you posted on the results.
By the way, I got these stains at one of those woodworking stores that have all of the exotic woods no one can afford like Purpleheart and Zebrawood. The stains cost about $12/pint which isn't really a bad price if I can find one I like.
As for lye water raising the grain, yes it does.
I've found that 2 careful whiskerings with water and very light passes with new (unused) sandpaper removes enough of the whiskers so the lye water/vinigar treatment doesn't raise enough new whiskers to be concerned with.
As for the carving, the lye water does the same thing it does elsewhere. If there is endgrain from the curl, it will get darker than the flatgrained area.
IMO it's too bad they don't still make the Colonial Brown any more either, but, I guess that's progress?
As I mentioned before, I am trying several different shades of BEHLEN Master SOLAR-LUX stains.
These are alcohol based and won't raise the grain.
The 3 different colors I have are Medium Brown Walnut, Medium Brown Mahogany and Brown Maple.
For my likes, my first experiment says when applying 2 coats of each color to a piece of CM, the Mahogany is too red. The Walnut is "looks about like a walnut stock would look" and the Maple is just...Brown.
2 coats of Walnut plus 1 coat of Mahogany is still a bit too red, and the three coats together are getting rather dark.
I think I will try 3 coats of Maple and 1 coat of thinned Mahogany next. I'll keep you posted on the results.
By the way, I got these stains at one of those woodworking stores that have all of the exotic woods no one can afford like Purpleheart and Zebrawood. The stains cost about $12/pint which isn't really a bad price if I can find one I like.
As for lye water raising the grain, yes it does.
I've found that 2 careful whiskerings with water and very light passes with new (unused) sandpaper removes enough of the whiskers so the lye water/vinigar treatment doesn't raise enough new whiskers to be concerned with.
As for the carving, the lye water does the same thing it does elsewhere. If there is endgrain from the curl, it will get darker than the flatgrained area.
I have used some of the Laurel Mtn Forge stain wich is alcohol based and I like it very much. I have used the Nut Brown and had good results with it also you may want to check the Honey Maple stain at TOW. Ive top coated with BC True Oil and Tung used multiple coats till finish is built up, use some 4/0 steel wool to nock it down between coats a little usally gives a nice depth to the grain . make some sample peices up using 1 to 2 coats of stain and see what you like best. :m2c: :results: http://www.trackofthewolf.com/popUps/popSingle.aspx?partNum=LMF-STAIN-HM
I have used the Laurel Mountain Forge "Lancaster Maple" then finished with Jim Chambers Oil finish. I will definitely use both products again.
The secret to the LMF stain is the stock preparation prior to staining. I whisker until absolutely no wood stands up, then whisker again. Vacum the stock with a brush and then use a tack cloth between each whiskering. The sanding will muddy the curl and all dust must be removed. After the last time the stock needs to be burnished to bring the curl back out. I use both a scuff cloth and an old thick wool sock with a lot of elbow grease to really heat up the wood. You will see the curl come back.
Then I wet the stock one more time to open the pores and after it drys I apply two coats of stain one day apart.
The Chambers oil is real easy to use. Wet the stock thickly the first time and keep applying it to areas that soak it all up. Let it sit about 20 minutes then rub it off with a hard cloth. Let it dry overnight or longer. Then I start hand rubbing it in in successive coats. Just put a little on the stock and rub it in with the palm of your hand until you can't rub it any further, then apply a touch more and continue. Lightly steel wool between coats and vacum the the stock completely before adding the next coat. About eight coats makes a good deep protective finish.
For this process I put a stiff wire through the first thimble hole and twist it into a big loop that will flip over the front of the stock. Then make a loop and attach it to the butt with one of the screws. When I get to the point where I can't hold the stock and rest it without it messing up the wet finish then I hang it from overhead hooks and continue.
The secret to the LMF stain is the stock preparation prior to staining. I whisker until absolutely no wood stands up, then whisker again. Vacum the stock with a brush and then use a tack cloth between each whiskering. The sanding will muddy the curl and all dust must be removed. After the last time the stock needs to be burnished to bring the curl back out. I use both a scuff cloth and an old thick wool sock with a lot of elbow grease to really heat up the wood. You will see the curl come back.
Then I wet the stock one more time to open the pores and after it drys I apply two coats of stain one day apart.
The Chambers oil is real easy to use. Wet the stock thickly the first time and keep applying it to areas that soak it all up. Let it sit about 20 minutes then rub it off with a hard cloth. Let it dry overnight or longer. Then I start hand rubbing it in in successive coats. Just put a little on the stock and rub it in with the palm of your hand until you can't rub it any further, then apply a touch more and continue. Lightly steel wool between coats and vacum the the stock completely before adding the next coat. About eight coats makes a good deep protective finish.
For this process I put a stiff wire through the first thimble hole and twist it into a big loop that will flip over the front of the stock. Then make a loop and attach it to the butt with one of the screws. When I get to the point where I can't hold the stock and rest it without it messing up the wet finish then I hang it from overhead hooks and continue.
I think basically you buy a new can of Chambers stock oil for each gun. There is enough to finish several rifles if you do them all at once. It does dry real fast but it lasts long enough to finish a gun.
When I get to the hand rubbing part, I put the cap back on until I need more oil (not twisted on, just layed on) this helps prevent air from getting to the oil. This might help, might not.
It does dry fast in the can after it is opened. After a few days you will notice a build up around the opening, but down in the can the oil is still good. I cut a foam brush down to where it will go past the buildup without any sticking to the brush.
When rubbing it in you must be careful of runs as the oil is thin. The key is to use a very small amount and rub away from the point of application until it is spread out and starts getting warm and sticky on the palm. When it will spread no further, put just a little touch on at that point and continue.
When I get to the hand rubbing part, I put the cap back on until I need more oil (not twisted on, just layed on) this helps prevent air from getting to the oil. This might help, might not.
It does dry fast in the can after it is opened. After a few days you will notice a build up around the opening, but down in the can the oil is still good. I cut a foam brush down to where it will go past the buildup without any sticking to the brush.
When rubbing it in you must be careful of runs as the oil is thin. The key is to use a very small amount and rub away from the point of application until it is spread out and starts getting warm and sticky on the palm. When it will spread no further, put just a little touch on at that point and continue.
We now, ain't this somethin'. Every one is yakin it up about Laurel Mountain Forge...
Oddly enough, today I bought:
Laurel Mountain Forge Stains...
American Walnut
Cherry
Honey Maple
Lancaster Maple
Maple
Nut Brown
and some Stain Reducer
and Permalyn Wood Sealer
then I bought...
Birchwood Casey True-Oil
and some Linseed Oil, Rottenstone and some scrubby pads
Now, what the heck am I gonna do!
Me thinks I will rip the only peice of maple I have and start experimenting...
I can't let Zonie have all the fun!
:blah:
Oddly enough, today I bought:
Laurel Mountain Forge Stains...
American Walnut
Cherry
Honey Maple
Lancaster Maple
Maple
Nut Brown
and some Stain Reducer
and Permalyn Wood Sealer
then I bought...
Birchwood Casey True-Oil
and some Linseed Oil, Rottenstone and some scrubby pads
Now, what the heck am I gonna do!
Me thinks I will rip the only peice of maple I have and start experimenting...
I can't let Zonie have all the fun!
:blah:
Been shopping, huh? I've tried all of the stains you have, and they're good. I like aqua fortis for the period correctness of it.
I cut each stain 1 to 1 with denatured alcohol. I use old pickle jars for storage and they work great and have a wide mouth as well. I'd recommend cutting the cherry perhaps 2 to 1 or even 3 to 1 as its very, very RED ! The nice thing is you can mix them to get many different effects, for example, you can apply Lancaster Maple, then Honey Maple, and a light application of Cherry for a unique color.
We need to take up a collection of scrap maple to send Rootnuke so he's not testing stain on match stick-sized pieces of maple.
I cut each stain 1 to 1 with denatured alcohol. I use old pickle jars for storage and they work great and have a wide mouth as well. I'd recommend cutting the cherry perhaps 2 to 1 or even 3 to 1 as its very, very RED ! The nice thing is you can mix them to get many different effects, for example, you can apply Lancaster Maple, then Honey Maple, and a light application of Cherry for a unique color.
We need to take up a collection of scrap maple to send Rootnuke so he's not testing stain on match stick-sized pieces of maple.
Terry Zboril
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Rootnuke,
As a new member here, I do not want to intrude. However the first rifle pictured, (wooden box), is one I built earlier this year and is posted on Track's site.
As Slowpoke correctly surmised, it has an "aquafortis based"(Whakon Bay, diluted about 1/4 and "blushed") stain,with color enhancements from Brownell's water based powdered stains added as necessary.(I shoulda added more red, as an afterthought.)
The nitric simply "enhances" any evident curl or burl, with the Brownell's adding "color".
The finish on the one top one you pictured is hand rubbed (with steel wool), Jim Chambers stock oil, though Dem-Bart's "Stock and Checker Oil" will work, as good or better.
Tru-Oil is too thick a finish, IMHO, without dilution.
Another tip on keeping the "finishing oils" stable, is to fill the can with cheap "Hobby Lobby" marbles, to keep the air space down.
Sorry for rambling, as this is my first post, xcept for my intro.
(if you have any questions, please E-mail me offline)
Regards,
Terry
As a new member here, I do not want to intrude. However the first rifle pictured, (wooden box), is one I built earlier this year and is posted on Track's site.
As Slowpoke correctly surmised, it has an "aquafortis based"(Whakon Bay, diluted about 1/4 and "blushed") stain,with color enhancements from Brownell's water based powdered stains added as necessary.(I shoulda added more red, as an afterthought.)
The nitric simply "enhances" any evident curl or burl, with the Brownell's adding "color".
The finish on the one top one you pictured is hand rubbed (with steel wool), Jim Chambers stock oil, though Dem-Bart's "Stock and Checker Oil" will work, as good or better.
Tru-Oil is too thick a finish, IMHO, without dilution.
Another tip on keeping the "finishing oils" stable, is to fill the can with cheap "Hobby Lobby" marbles, to keep the air space down.
Sorry for rambling, as this is my first post, xcept for my intro.
(if you have any questions, please E-mail me offline)
Regards,
Terry
Although I havn't used the Chambers oil, one trick that works for me with similar products is to store the can upsidedown after it is opened. Eventually a skin forms at the bottom which reduces the exposure of the finish to the air. Useing this trick it should be possible to get at least two rifles from a can before the remainder becomes unuseable.
While carving on the stock this weekend I took the time to make up some 2"x3"x1/24" scraps of curly maple for the purpose of sampling the basic stains that come from Laurel Mountin Forge.
First I sanded each of the 6 maple sample pieces.
Next I applied a lye solution and let dry (about 12 hours).
Then I applied a coats of vinegar to nutralize the lye.
Next I let the vinegar dry (about 12 hours)
Then applied one coat of stain from the 6 cans I had of different Laurel Mountain Stain I had purched.
Here are the results...
The stain applied was NOT thinned. After the stain was applied I just rubbed with a shop towel to remove any excess stain.
I am leaning toward the Maple stain (far right). Even in its straight no deluted form seems acceptable. I may change my mind. It is raining today and I don't have the luxury of Sun light to compare with inside lighting.
The one thing that bothers me a bit is the inconsistency of the stain. Meaning to say, the samples I stained have a couple of "mottled" un-even spots.
I remember that there was some stuff I used one time to stain furniture that would allow the stain to soak evenly which was applied before the stain. However I don't think that would be right for this.
Anyway, I thought this interesting to do because everythere I looked I could never get an example of what LMF stains looked like. So, here they are. :thumbsup:
oh, and while I'm thinking about it, here is a little relief carving I was doing this weekend...Don't beat me up too bad. I is my first time carving other than sticks on the front porch when I was 10.
The tang carving is only 75% done and has an example of Isaac Haines releif carving of which I am trying to copy. The cheek piece shown is of course also in the style of Isaac Haines and has only been pencil drawn and I am starting to carve the c's.
:master: in advance...
First I sanded each of the 6 maple sample pieces.
Next I applied a lye solution and let dry (about 12 hours).
Then I applied a coats of vinegar to nutralize the lye.
Next I let the vinegar dry (about 12 hours)
Then applied one coat of stain from the 6 cans I had of different Laurel Mountain Stain I had purched.
Here are the results...
The stain applied was NOT thinned. After the stain was applied I just rubbed with a shop towel to remove any excess stain.
I am leaning toward the Maple stain (far right). Even in its straight no deluted form seems acceptable. I may change my mind. It is raining today and I don't have the luxury of Sun light to compare with inside lighting.
The one thing that bothers me a bit is the inconsistency of the stain. Meaning to say, the samples I stained have a couple of "mottled" un-even spots.
I remember that there was some stuff I used one time to stain furniture that would allow the stain to soak evenly which was applied before the stain. However I don't think that would be right for this.
Anyway, I thought this interesting to do because everythere I looked I could never get an example of what LMF stains looked like. So, here they are. :thumbsup:
oh, and while I'm thinking about it, here is a little relief carving I was doing this weekend...Don't beat me up too bad. I is my first time carving other than sticks on the front porch when I was 10.
The tang carving is only 75% done and has an example of Isaac Haines releif carving of which I am trying to copy. The cheek piece shown is of course also in the style of Isaac Haines and has only been pencil drawn and I am starting to carve the c's.
:master: in advance...
I think I answered my own question regarding the splotchy, mottled, uneven look to the stain.
I need to cut the LMF stain 50% with denatured alchohol. Once the the stain is cut 50% then instead of one big coat, I will apply multiple coats to achieve the desired color and darkness.
Am I on the right track?:hmm:
And by-the-way, As others have learned with freckles on their stock...at no point will I use steel wool! ::
I need to cut the LMF stain 50% with denatured alchohol. Once the the stain is cut 50% then instead of one big coat, I will apply multiple coats to achieve the desired color and darkness.
Am I on the right track?:hmm:
And by-the-way, As others have learned with freckles on their stock...at no point will I use steel wool! ::
When I ordered the stains from Log Cabin the sales person did not exactly insist but seemed to imply that PERMALYN WOOD SEALER would be needed after the stain and desired color/darkness was acheived
Laurel Mountain Forge
PERMALYN WOOD SEALER, 4 OZ.
Fast drying, deep penetrating, helps protect wood from water, weathering, chemicals and abrasion. Easy to use on new wood or over old finish.
If my intention after staining is to go over the stock repeatedly with Boiled Linseed Oil, rubbing pad and Rottenstone I think that this is not needed.
I think at this point the process will be...
1.Sand and whisker the stock with ~380 grit sandpaper.
2. Bring out the strips with an application of lye solution and let dry (1 teaspoon to 1 cup of water)
3. Sand and whisker again
4. Kill the lye with application of vinegar solution to and let dry
5. Sand and whisker again
6. Stain the stock progressively with 1:1 or possibly 2:1 stain of my choice until desired color/darkness is acheived.
7. Go over the entire stock many times with Boiled Linseed Oil applied to an applicator pad with Rottenstone until desired finish is achieved.
Am I still on track? :hmm:
Laurel Mountain Forge
PERMALYN WOOD SEALER, 4 OZ.
Fast drying, deep penetrating, helps protect wood from water, weathering, chemicals and abrasion. Easy to use on new wood or over old finish.
If my intention after staining is to go over the stock repeatedly with Boiled Linseed Oil, rubbing pad and Rottenstone I think that this is not needed.
I think at this point the process will be...
1.Sand and whisker the stock with ~380 grit sandpaper.
2. Bring out the strips with an application of lye solution and let dry (1 teaspoon to 1 cup of water)
3. Sand and whisker again
4. Kill the lye with application of vinegar solution to and let dry
5. Sand and whisker again
6. Stain the stock progressively with 1:1 or possibly 2:1 stain of my choice until desired color/darkness is acheived.
7. Go over the entire stock many times with Boiled Linseed Oil applied to an applicator pad with Rottenstone until desired finish is achieved.
Am I still on track? :hmm:
The carving looks GOOD!
The stain, well, I'd cut it a good bit. OK, a lot. At least 3 to 1. I really think this stuff is a concentrate and far too strong to use out of the can. The lye application can be skipped with this type of stain. That would only be helpful with aqua fortis. The boiled linseed oil would look good, but is not weather resistant in any way shape, or form. In fact, your sweat will dissolve it onto your hands. (YUCK!) Jim Chambers' "Traditional Stock Oil" works great, "Pilkington's" stock finish works good also and can be had either clear, or tinted golden - brown or red - brown. Either brand is weather resistant. Chambers' oil is at www.flintlocks.com and Pilkington's oil is at www.brownells.com . The rottenstone can be used to cut back a final finish to the level of sheen desired, but as part of the application is a ton of fuss that can the done with plain steel wool and a tack cloth from the hardware store. The "Permalyn Sealer" is, in my opinion a joke.
The stain, well, I'd cut it a good bit. OK, a lot. At least 3 to 1. I really think this stuff is a concentrate and far too strong to use out of the can. The lye application can be skipped with this type of stain. That would only be helpful with aqua fortis. The boiled linseed oil would look good, but is not weather resistant in any way shape, or form. In fact, your sweat will dissolve it onto your hands. (YUCK!) Jim Chambers' "Traditional Stock Oil" works great, "Pilkington's" stock finish works good also and can be had either clear, or tinted golden - brown or red - brown. Either brand is weather resistant. Chambers' oil is at www.flintlocks.com and Pilkington's oil is at www.brownells.com . The rottenstone can be used to cut back a final finish to the level of sheen desired, but as part of the application is a ton of fuss that can the done with plain steel wool and a tack cloth from the hardware store. The "Permalyn Sealer" is, in my opinion a joke.
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