kingsax26
45 Cal.
Does anyone make a straight rifled barrel? I have read about them but have yet to find some one who makes them
straight rifled barrels
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Col. Batguano
75 Cal.
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I'm sure that Charles Burton at FCI Barrels would make you one if you asked. Current lead time is 6-8 months. Prices are about the same as Rice, as is the quality.
galamb
58 Cal.
FCI barrels - (Charlie Burton), will rifle from straight (no twist at all) to 1:21 - and anything in between.
Plus he will make any profile you like up to 48" long.
Takes about 6 months to a year to get a barrel from him (one man show), but his work is good and his prices are more than competitive.
(he currently has an order from me, so you can get in line behind) :grin:
Plus he will make any profile you like up to 48" long.
Takes about 6 months to a year to get a barrel from him (one man show), but his work is good and his prices are more than competitive.
(he currently has an order from me, so you can get in line behind) :grin:
Stophel
75 Cal.
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Mr. Burton's first straight rifled barrel he made for me a couple of years ago or so. I have yet to stock it! It's quite nice.
The Germans called them "Schrot Buechsen" (shot rifles) and appear to have been intended for shot, and used with shot, the straight rifling stabilizing the shot column, supposedly giving better patterns (You can buy modern shotgun barrels and tubes with straight rifling for this same reason). I'm anxious to see how mine will do, but I'm afraid it will be some time still before I get to it.
The Germans called them "Schrot Buechsen" (shot rifles) and appear to have been intended for shot, and used with shot, the straight rifling stabilizing the shot column, supposedly giving better patterns (You can buy modern shotgun barrels and tubes with straight rifling for this same reason). I'm anxious to see how mine will do, but I'm afraid it will be some time still before I get to it.
I don't know if this was the way it was done in the old days, But I have read of a guy in Idaho at lweast 40 years ago that took his guide for pulling the rifleing jig though the barrel and laid out a sting to mark his rate of twist. glued the string dowwn about 1/2 way up his dowle then readjusted his twist,glued it at 3/4 the way and readjusted again. then cut out a grove though the dowle to pull through the rifiling guide.
I have also read that stright rifiling was first used to make a grove to collect fouling
I have also read that stright rifiling was first used to make a grove to collect fouling
They rotate the barrel faster or slower as is needed as the cutter passes along the length of the bore.
It can be done with a spiral guide like the ones used back in the day, with cams that control the rotation of the barrel or with CNC that controls the barrels rotation and the cutter travel with numerical data stored in the computers memory.
It can be done with a spiral guide like the ones used back in the day, with cams that control the rotation of the barrel or with CNC that controls the barrels rotation and the cutter travel with numerical data stored in the computers memory.
kingsax26
45 Cal.
thanks all for the reply, what is the difference in accuracy between straight rifled and smooth? is it worth the year long wait? Id hate to have to hire my MOB friends to get GALAMB out of my way and to t he end of the line....
ohio ramrod
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Gain twist rifling was usually cut using a "cam bar" rifling machine with the guiding bar curved. The cam bar machines used the principle of a "rack and pinion" gearing to turn the cutter as it was pulled through the barrel. The twist was set by the angle of the guide bar. A curved guide bar would give a gain twist, a straight bar a uniform twist. But I have seen gain twist "pattern blocks" for the more common machines as well. :idunno: :hmm: :idunno:
I'd think long and hard before I decided on one. And then I'd decide against it. They have been around for along time, and even the people of the day never found them to offer any advantage.Bryon said:
In 1789 Cleator wrote:
"The straight rifling of barrels, is an expedient, which, though not often practiced, yet deserves notice, as having the testimony of some amateurs to its efficacy in preventing the scattering of shot. Neither the workmen who make these pieces, however, nor the persons who use them, can give any satisfactory explanation of the principles upon which the rifling proves serviceable in fowling pieces; and some of them admit that it cannot be of any use, unless the depth and breadth of the channels, and the size of the shot, are suited to each other. Having never tried any of these pieces, we shall not assert, that they possess no advantage over the plain ones; but we can safely say that they are attended with several obvious inconveniencies, the chief of which is, their great weight; for the barrel must be made considerably thicker than a plain one, in order to admit of being rifled, and the additional quantity of metal in it, when finished, will be in proportion to the depth of the channels, and the breadth of the threads. They are also more difficultly kept clean; and it is scarcely possible to prevent considerable windage, let us use what kind of wadding we will: so that not only a part of the force of the explosion will be lost, but the flame, by getting among the grains of the shot, will increase their divergency from its lateral expansion when the charge has quitted the muzzle. We shall, however, postpone the further consideration of this matter, until we have treated of rifle barrels in particular, when it will be better understood, and more in its proper place."
And later, after having discussed barrels with spiral rifling:
"The spiral rifled barrels, however, have entirely superseded the straight rifled ones, because although the latter prevented the rolling motion of the ball that takes place in a plain barrel, yet they do not communicate any other motion, that could serve to correct the variations that may occur during the flight."
And:
"Having now fully explained the principles upon which rifle barrels produce their effects, our readers will be prepared to consider how far the straight rifling can be useful when employed for shot. These pieces are said to be very common in Germany, and are used by a few persons in this country; though we understand that the greater number even of these few are now less partial to them than they were at first."
It seems they were mostly used for shot, as in this ad from Philadelphia, 1774:
"THO: PALMER Gun Smith... He likewise makes all Sorts of SHOT GUNS, such as straight Rifles, Cocking pieces, Fuzees, &c. in the best and neatest Manner,"
Spence
Why?
Seems oxymoronic to me.
Really....wassa point? :idunno:
Seems oxymoronic to me.
Really....wassa point? :idunno:
kingsax26
45 Cal.
and that ois why I love this forum!
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
Kapow said:
Pick up a copy of Foxfire V, it explains how they did it in the 17-1800s...
As someone not that knowledgeable on this subject I'll throw out some of my notions and maybe others can comment. First, I thought all long arms many years ago were smooth bores. The accumulation of fouling made reloading difficult and someone thought that grooves would hold the fouling and make reloading easier. THEN someone thought about the groove being cut in a twist to spin the ball and that vastly improved accuracy SO....as someone that DOESN'T know, I've just assumed that the twist on the grooves was a big improvement. I never thought about rifling in a shotgun and to be honest, the traditional muzzle loading shotgun, etc- I think it would be a negative unless plastic shot cup was used. If the shot is loose some will get into the straight groove and when all the shot exists the muzzle it would seem that shot in grooves and not in grooves could bump into each other and produce a poor pattern. The shot cup- keeping it straight because of the straight rifling- actually that sounds like a valid thing to me.
Gain twist, most folks that have tried it say the results aren't any different, the idea was a single ball would engage the rifling in a more gentle manner and then start to twist. Slugs/sabots in modern shotguns. I was surprised to read that a 6" rifled choke tube does about as good a job as a full length rifled shotgun barrel.
On the rifling- I've read the mentioned Foxfire books. Years ago that's just the way they made the rifling guide/jig.
Gain twist, most folks that have tried it say the results aren't any different, the idea was a single ball would engage the rifling in a more gentle manner and then start to twist. Slugs/sabots in modern shotguns. I was surprised to read that a 6" rifled choke tube does about as good a job as a full length rifled shotgun barrel.
On the rifling- I've read the mentioned Foxfire books. Years ago that's just the way they made the rifling guide/jig.
galamb
58 Cal.
Unless I was recreating a rifle that was originally made with a straight rifled barrel I wouldn't bother.
Can't think of a single reason it would be better/stronger/faster than a smoothbore.
In fact, if I was simply building "a rifle" or "a gun" I would use a barrel right off the shelf - what I mean is, if I wanted say a 50 cal rifle and the Colerain (1:56) was available and the 1:70 GM was not, then it would get 1:56.
"I" will NEVER be a good enough shooter that any difference in twist will be of any benefit to me when I pull the trigger.
If you want to shoot "shot", get a smooth bore. If you are going to shoot PRB get a rifled barrel and if you want to shoot conicals, make it a faster twist.
Can't think of a single reason it would be better/stronger/faster than a smoothbore.
In fact, if I was simply building "a rifle" or "a gun" I would use a barrel right off the shelf - what I mean is, if I wanted say a 50 cal rifle and the Colerain (1:56) was available and the 1:70 GM was not, then it would get 1:56.
"I" will NEVER be a good enough shooter that any difference in twist will be of any benefit to me when I pull the trigger.
If you want to shoot "shot", get a smooth bore. If you are going to shoot PRB get a rifled barrel and if you want to shoot conicals, make it a faster twist.
kingsax26
45 Cal.
I am still in the process of aquiring the tools for my first build.....right now it is on old however I am still researching...researching researching....its just something t hat I ran across in a book and was curious. actually since I had my first smoothbore built...I ahve come to like it a good deal more than my rifles. If I can ever get my build progect of the ground I think I may end up attempting a .54 smooth....
Fox fire was an outstanding project. We have em all too (somewhere?). Todays youth would be blown away if they had a teecher to coach em through a learning experience like that. Not many older folks left to learn that stuff from
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
One other consideration if you plan to use that gun for turkey hunting...Down here in NC that gun would not be legal to turkey hunt with as the Regs say no rifles are allowed...
