straight rifled barrels

[Loyalist Dave]

It sorta depends on you really.

They have done some close examinations of extant "rifled" guns, and found them to be "straight rifled" aka "grooved" barrels. It seems that folks saw the rifling at the muzzle and assumed they were twist rifled.

You have the references from the 18th century, so although it appears the Germans introduced the twist to the rifled barrel by 1520, or perfected it....yet for some reason these straight rifled barrels persisted. So there must be enough advantage that enough folks found to continue their use...consider that when the flintlock was perfected it repaced the matchlock in 50 years, but the straight rifled guns lasted at least 250 years or more...

Also note that "smooth rifle" guns were also produced, appearing every bit like rifles of the period BUT having plain, smooth barrels. At first it was theorized that these were made from originally worn out rifled pieces, that were unbreeched and reamed, for somebody whose older eyes could not take advantage of a long distance shot where the rifle would be an advantage. THEN it was found that actually a great many were made as such from the beginning.

It is true that a lack of torque of the shot column will give the shot column a slight advantage by reducing the dispersal as it flies downrange.

I have a friend who had one made, and found that it did seem to shoot slighly better than a plain, smooth barrel when launching a round ball (but it didn't give a significantly better group to trump a smoothbore.) So, good for patched round ball, a little better for shot.

It would be rather unique. Is it worth your wait? Well that's entirely up to you.

As for hunting turkey.., "rifling" or a "rifle" in modern, legal terminology, means a rifle with interior, twisting grooves. In the case of a "straight rifled" aka "grooved" barrel, it would still be legal, as would a "smooth rifle", terminology not being the deciding factor here, otherwise turkey chokes for shotguns that are grooved would also be outlawed.


LD

 

[azmntman]

As for hunting turkey.., "rifling" or a "rifle" in modern, legal terminology, means a rifle with interior, twisting grooves. In the case of a "straight rifled" aka "grooved" barrel, it would still be legal, as would a "smooth rifle", terminology not being the deciding factor here, otherwise turkey chokes for shotguns that are grooved would also be outlawed.

Here in AZ it would depend entirely upon what kinda day (and night prior) the investigating game warden was having/had (and the local JP as well). AZ is funny bout game laws. By the book here and of course it depends on who taught ya to read :blah: In my quite animated youth I once was cited for a game violation when I really wasn't even in the woods to hunt. The JP asked me what happened and stated "thats BS" and dismissed the charges! :shocked2:

 

[nchawkeye]

Exactly, and most game wardens don't know squat about the type muzzleloaders we are referring to......

 

[Loyalist Dave]

that gun would not be legal to turkey hunt with as the Regs say no rifles are allowed...

Sorry I thought you were referring to the law, not the possible actions of the human enforcing the law..., :blah: :haha: The gun would be lawful to use, whether or not you are cited is another issue entirely. I'm a LEO, and I've had to school some of my cohorts on laws and wording.

Now in the PRoMD..., the current wording of firearm has been made so broad that if it has a gun barrel, and propels a projectile by explosive gas, spring, or compressed gas...it is one... now this definition covers some NERF guns...

Anyway back to the topic..., Some folks found back then, and now, that there is a bit of an advantage of a grooved barrel over a "smooth rifle"...the question then is..., is that advantage sufficient to warrant the personal cost to the buyer and wait time?

It's also rather rare, and some folks like that factor too....DARE TO BE DIFFERENT (if you can afford it) :grin:

LD

 

[galamb]

Tripped over this link with a short explanation as to the advantage of straight rifling over smoothbore.

Take a look and make your own decision (straight rifled)

 

[Alden]

Last I saw was Hastings, in France, who're outta (the gun barrel) business -- I use one on one of my modern Remington TC Trap pump-action shotguns.

 

[George]

Take a look and make your own decision

Not logical. How does a tightly patched ball in a smooth bore behave any differently than one with straight rifling?

His simply stating the fact doesn't make it so.

Spence

 

[Wes/Tex]

Agree Bob, it's just a statement of the difference between "shouldn't" and "couldn't"...which is questionable, since a fairly tightly patched ball has never turned into a curve ball on me. Loose, undersized ball maybe, but not a tightly patched ball with any sort of wadding cushion.

 

[kytrapper]

Commenting on old thread… but did anyone else read that the expert providing the opinion against straight rifling had never used one……yet provided opinion on its effectiveness….


Armchair quarterbacks… How far back do they go?

I'd think long and hard before I decided on one. And then I'd decide against it. They have been around for along time, and even the people of the day never found them to offer any advantage.

In 1789 Cleator wrote:

"The straight rifling of barrels, is an expedient, which, though not often practiced, yet deserves notice, as having the testimony of some amateurs to its efficacy in preventing the scattering of shot. Neither the workmen who make these pieces, however, nor the persons who use them, can give any satisfactory explanation of the principles upon which the rifling proves serviceable in fowling pieces; and some of them admit that it cannot be of any use, unless the depth and breadth of the channels, and the size of the shot, are suited to each other. Having never tried any of these pieces, we shall not assert, that they possess no advantage over the plain ones; but we can safely say that they are attended with several obvious inconveniencies, the chief of which is, their great weight; for the barrel must be made considerably thicker than a plain one, in order to admit of being rifled, and the additional quantity of metal in it, when finished, will be in proportion to the depth of the channels, and the breadth of the threads. They are also more difficultly kept clean; and it is scarcely possible to prevent considerable windage, let us use what kind of wadding we will: so that not only a part of the force of the explosion will be lost, but the flame, by getting among the grains of the shot, will increase their divergency from its lateral expansion when the charge has quitted the muzzle. We shall, however, postpone the further consideration of this matter, until we have treated of rifle barrels in particular, when it will be better understood, and more in its proper place."

And later, after having discussed barrels with spiral rifling:

"The spiral rifled barrels, however, have entirely superseded the straight rifled ones, because although the latter prevented the rolling motion of the ball that takes place in a plain barrel, yet they do not communicate any other motion, that could serve to correct the variations that may occur during the flight."

And:

"Having now fully explained the principles upon which rifle barrels produce their effects, our readers will be prepared to consider how far the straight rifling can be useful when employed for shot. These pieces are said to be very common in Germany, and are used by a few persons in this country; though we understand that the greater number even of these few are now less partial to them than they were at first."

It seems they were mostly used for shot, as in this ad from Philadelphia, 1774:

"THO: PALMER Gun Smith... He likewise makes all Sorts of SHOT GUNS, such as straight Rifles, Cocking pieces, Fuzees, &c. in the best and neatest Manner,"

Spence