Strange issue cleaning .50 cal

[user 52142]

I have a CVA Express double barrel rifle in .50 cal I picked up from one of our great members. Was going to clean it today for the first time. Laid out all of my 50 cal cleaning supplies, brush, patch jag ect. Everything I use on my 50 cal longrifle.
First issue, bore very tight and after going all the way in, brush stuck and could not pull it out. Ended up breaking end off ramrod. Used my patch puller on a brass cleaning rod to get it out.
Second issue. Was going to swab with a cleaning patch, but once I put the patch on the brass 50 cal jag, it would not go into the barrel without a lot of force. After breaking the ramrod, did not want to force the issue and get the patch and jag stuck also.
Bore is not rusty or corroded. Looks good and shiny with a light. New to ML, so hoping y,all can lend some advice.
Now I am wondering if a .490 ball will fit.
Thanks in advance for your help
Bill

 

[rafterob]

.490 ball should be fine, you might just need a thin patch. I needed to turn down a .50 cal jag for my CVA Mountain rifle. That is the fix. If you know anyone with a lathe that helps. Otherwise chuck it in a drill and run it on a file. On the Brush situation, if that ever happens again, twist the ramrod while pulling out. It helps to reposition the wires so they can bend towards the breech instead of locking in facing the muzzle.

 

[user 52142]

Thanks for the advice rafterbob. I did try and twist the brush, that when the ramrod broke
I'll turn down the jag with drill and file as suggested.
Thanks again

 

[Grenadier1758]

Another case study demonstrating the need for digital Vernier caliper. Even the inexpensive $20 caliper from Harbor Freight are accurate enough for our needs.

I suspect that the bore on your rifle is undersized and the filing of the jag will solve your cleaning issues. Once the bore is measured, the ball size and patch thickness can be selected to start load development.

 

[user 52142]

Another case study demonstrating the need for digital Vernier caliper. Even the inexpensive $20 caliper from Harbor Freight are accurate enough for our needs.

I suspect that the bore on your rifle is undersized and the filing of the jag will solve your cleaning issues. Once the bore is measured, the ball size and patch thickness can be selected to start load development.

Thanks ! I do have a dial caliper and will check bore size and see what I find.

My fault for assuming that all .50 cal are created equal.....

 

[Notchy Bob]

I agree with @Grenadier1758 . Advertised bore sizes are not always quite correct. Undersized bores are not uncommon.

Brass bore brushes were intended to be pushed all the way through the barrel and out the other end. This enables the bristles to reverse, and they work great for aggressive cleaning with a breech loader, or if you pull the breechplug of your muzzleloader, which is not something most of us do these days. I would daresay a lot of us have been in a situation similar to the one you describe. It ranks right up there with dry-balling a load.

Bore brushes did exist in the 19th century, but they were made from natural hog bristles. The closest approximation now is nylon. I don’t know of anybody currently producing hog bristle bore brushes.

Anyway, I would not use a brass or stainless bore brush on a muzzleloader. I do have some nylon brushes, but frankly, they are seldom needed. Pumping warm, soapy water in the bore, using a snug-fitting patch/jag combination is normally adequate for cleaning.

If I may, I would suggest trying a .45 caliber jag with thick, flannel patches. If it isn’t tight enough to suit you, try a larger patch, or two patches.

A little while back, I measured some of the muzzleloader jags I have on hand, and if I remember correctly I found they are typically around .050” smaller than the nominal bore size. If you get a definitive measure of your rifle bore, that may give you a target diameter for turning down the jag you have, if that’s what you want to do.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[user 52142]

I agree with @Grenadier1758 . Advertised bore sizes are not always quite correct. Undersized bores are not uncommon.

Brass bore brushes were intended to be pushed all the way through the barrel and out the other end. This enables the bristles to reverse, and they work great for aggressive cleaning with a breech loader, or if you pull the breechplug of your muzzleloader, which is not something most of us do these days.

Bore brushes did exist in the 19th century, but they were made from natural hog bristles. The closest approximation now is nylon. I don’t know of anybody currently producing hog bristle bore brushes.

Anyway, I would not use a brass or stainless bore brush on a muzzleloader. I do have some nylon brushes, but frankly, they are seldom needed. Pumping warm, soapy water in the bore, using a song-fitting patch/jag combination is normally adequate for cleaning.

If I may, I would suggest trying a .45 caliber jag with thick, flannel patches. If it isn’t tight enough to suit you, try a larger patch, or two patches.

A little while back, I measured some of the muzzleloader jags I have on hand, and if I remember correctly I found they are typically around .050” smaller than the nominal bore size. If you get a definitive measure of your rifle bore, that may give you a target diameter for turning down the jag you have, if that’s what you want to do.

in any event, I would not use a brass brush in a muzzleloader. I think a lot of us have experienced a scenario more or less like yours. Nylon is the way to go if you need a brush.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Thank you very much for the great information !!

 

[Phil Coffins]

Cleaning anything start with easy to use combinations on the first pass. Then with the condition of the bore established use tighter cleaning tools. When you have to force the patch in you set yourself up for trouble.

 

[Bunk]

Cleaning anything start with easy to use combinations on the first pass. Then with the condition of the bore established use tighter cleaning tools. When you have to force the patch in you set yourself up for trouble.
Phil forcing anything on a gun is a bad idea. If it does not fit find out why first.
Bunk

 

[nhmoose]

Cleaning any used gun get a SS range rod. Get Good brushes that are looped and not crimped. Go from there.

Reading this forum you could have avoided the problem.

 

[EC121]

Don't use a jag with brass or aluminum threads. They will eventually break.
I've never bought a jag that I didn't have to turn down in my drill.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

My advice: never use a bore brush on a muzzleloader. Always use a smaller jag than the bore. For instance I use a .45 caliber jag on a .50 caliber. This makes a big difference when cleaning between shots as a tight jag/patch combination will push crud into the breech that can cause ignition problems and extra work when cleaning after shooting. A "looser" patch will grab fouling and allow it to be drawn out of the bore instead of pushing it harder into the groove and breech areas.

 

[flntlokr]

Don't use a jag with brass or aluminum threads. They will eventually break.
I've never bought a jag that I didn't have to turn down in my drill.

When I have had threads break off of a jag, I chuck the jag up in my lathe and drill/tap a hole with appropriate thread, and insert a steel screw with the head cut off, with some loctite to prevent the rod from unscrewing while in use.

 

[hanshi]

It's not particularly a good idea to use a wooden ramrod to remove stuck ball, with any metal bristle brush or with an oversize jag. I often use a jag the next caliber down for many cleaning purposes. Get a metal (ss or brass) "range rod" for tough cleaning or loading. I've had the wood ramrod simply twist into 2 pieces trying to pull a ball.

 

[user 52142]

Thanks for all of the great advice and wisdom everyone. I did pick up a good brass range rod, and will be smarter and bore brushes and cleaning from this point on.

 

[Tenring]

Had the same tight issue on a Lyman Deer Stalker 50 cal. So many years ago and did what one of the fellow members did on here and chucked the jag up in a drill used a file smoothed it down a little and the problem was fixed.

 

[Des52]

My Traditions .50 won't take a .490. and I went down to .480 and it shoots great. It has a .36 barrel that shoots .350s and my Pedersoli .36 only likes .345s. All bores are not the same.

 

[[email protected]]

Well this is a timely thread for a new owner of the OP rifle! And guess what? I had a very similar problem with mine, only I stuck the patched jag down bore and it too hung up upon retraction attempts.
So after much fooling around, trying to work it back and forth, hoping to get past the 'catch' point, unsuccessfully, I unscrewed the rod, a plastic rod for cleaning and range, so all thats down there is the patched jag, a bronze one of .50 cal size.
I then popped a couple of caps on it to see if it might jar loose, no luck there, so then resorted to what I had to do once years ago when I had this happen to a different rifle, blast it out!
Unscrewed the nipple, worked a few grains of BP into the hole, replaced the nipple, capped it and let her rip. It worked as it did before, the now damaged and useless jag sailed out with some alacrity, drove into the rubber matting on my shop floor, and bounced back to my feet, no real harm done anywhere.
To finish the cleaning I did as others and went to a smaller jag and was able to run it in and out with no more catchy BS at the breech.
I must invest in one of those air powered Saf T Unloaders for next time.
I love the smell of black powder in the shop!! Feels like,, oops!

 

[Bunk]

Well this is a timely thread for a new owner of the OP rifle! And guess what? I had a very similar problem with mine, only I stuck the patched jag down bore and it too hung up upon retraction attempts.
So after much fooling around, trying to work it back and forth, hoping to get past the 'catch' point, unsuccessfully, I unscrewed the rod, a plastic rod for cleaning and range, so all thats down there is the patched jag, a bronze one of .50 cal size.
I then popped a couple of caps on it to see if it might jar loose, no luck there, so then resorted to what I had to do once years ago when I had this happen to a different rifle, blast it out!
Unscrewed the nipple, worked a few grains of BP into the hole, replaced the nipple, capped it and let her rip. It worked as it did before, the now damaged and useless jag sailed out with some alacrity, drove into the rubber matting on my shop floor, and bounced back to my feet, no real harm done anywhere.
To finish the cleaning I did as others and went to a smaller jag and was able to run it in and out with no more catchy BS at the breech.
I must invest in one of those air powered Saf T Unloaders for next time.
I love the smell of black powder in the shop!! Feels like,, oops!

My advise is never put a patch on a jag down the bore. Use either a wet cotton mop or a smaller caliber brass brush with the patch wrapped around it. Same goes for a shotgun. At least that works for me.
have fun
Make smoke
Bunk

 

[[email protected]]

Well, it always worked before! However the guy I bought this from made the same recommendation about jags.