Strengthening frizzen spring?

[tnlonghunter]

The spring for my frizzen is rather weak. The firzzen doesn't really snap closed with much authority. I was thinking that opening the angle of the spring should give it some more umph, but before I do this I figured i should double check.

I was thinking to heat the spring bend to cherry red, open it a bit, requench in oil.

1. Would it need tempering? If so, what's your favorite process?

2. Would this really do much, or am I better off ordering a new spring (from Chambers)?

 

[Cruzatte]

Could it be that the flint is too short?

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

If you heat the spring cherry red the temper will come out of it. air cooled. you can try bending it to your desire. You will have to reheat the spring to cherry red and quench in oil. It will be too hard to use it will break. You must temper it out. Polish it bright in the white and take a propane torch until it turns blue much like the bluing on a gun. Set aside and let it air cool. fit it and try it.

 

[tnlonghunter]

If you heat the spring cherry red the temper will come out of it. air cooled. you can try bending it to your desire. You will have to reheat the spring to cherry red and quench in oil. It will be too hard to use it will break. You must temper it out. Polish it bright in the white and take a propane torch until it turns blue much like the bluing on a gun. Set aside and let it air cool. fit it and try it.

Thanks. Just to make sure I've got the order of operations correct:

1. Heat to cherry and let air cool.
2. Bend open.
3. Heat back to cherry and oil quench.
4. Polish bright.
5. Heat to blue and air cool.
6. Try and see.

 

[tnlonghunter]

Could it be that the flint is too short?

No, that would be if it's not opening. Mine closes weakly.

 

[IanH]

You can also temper by floating the polished spring on a pot of molten lead kept at 700 degrees until it turns bluish purple. That's how I do mine.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Thanks. Just to make sure I've got the order of operations correct:

1. Heat to cherry and let air cool.
2. Bend open.
3. Heat back to cherry and oil quench.
4. Polish bright.
5. Heat to blue and air cool.
6. Try and see.

Works for me.

 

[pacanis]

You've been here much longer than me, but I seem to have read somewhere that technically speaking a frizzen doesn't even need a spring to produce a good spark. If it's producing good sparks and not bouncing back into the flint I'd be hesitant to apply heat to it. Not unless I'm sure a replacement is available.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Every frizzen needs a good stout spring. A well designed flintlock will make sparks even without the spring but abundantly more when there is spring resistance. Moreover, that resistance becomes more critical as your flint wears and fouling accumulates on the flint and frizzen. To increase the strength of your spring heat the bend bright red while the boss for the screw is held in a vise. When bright red, open the spring by prying up with a screw driver inserted in the bend while the bend is still red hot (don't cool it) . Don't bend it up very much. Then you must heat the spring bright red and quench in canola oil, quenching oil, or salt brine. After quenching polish the spring up a bit then use the lead pot method or better, use a heat treating oven to hold the spring at 750 degrees for 30 minutes or more. If you don't have any of those options, polish the spring well and then heat with a propane torch until it turns indigo blue, then heat some more until the blue fades to a light blue verging on gray. Let it air cool and try it.

dave

 

[tnlonghunter]

Thank you, gentlemen! Substantially improved!!

 

[wiscoaster]

Thank you, gentlemen! Substantially improved!!

And which method did you use?

 

[tnlonghunter]

And which method did you use?

I went with Dave's method, tempering with the torch. Took about 20 minutes. I'll re-temper it with the lead-pot method next time I cast some balls (probably tomorrow). I just wanted to see how it worked before taking the time to melt all that lead and temper.

 

[64Springer]

The spring for my frizzen is rather weak. The firzzen doesn't really snap closed with much authority. I was thinking that opening the angle of the spring should give it some more umph, but before I do this I figured i should double check.

I was thinking to heat the spring bend to cherry red, open it a bit, requench in oil.

1. Would it need tempering? If so, what's your favorite process?

2. Would this really do much, or am I better off ordering a new spring (from Chambers)?

Removed at 3:30.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

The spring for my frizzen is rather weak. The firzzen doesn't really snap closed with much authority. I was thinking that opening the angle of the spring should give it some more umph, but before I do this I figured i should double check.

I was thinking to heat the spring bend to cherry red, open it a bit, requench in oil.

1. Would it need tempering? If so, what's your favorite process?

2. Would this really do much, or am I better off ordering a new spring (from Chambers)?

Could it be that the flint is too short?

Cruzatte is correct. The bearing surface on yore frizzen id too short. You need to add length to the contact point between the frizzen and the spring. Semper Fi.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Don't bend it up very much.

Amen, Bro. As always, good post Dave. Advice is spot on and should be followed.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

The spring for my frizzen is rather weak. The firzzen doesn't really snap closed with much authority. I was thinking that opening the angle of the spring should give it some more umph, but before I do this I figured i should double check.

I was thinking to heat the spring bend to cherry red, open it a bit, requench in oil.

1. Would it need tempering? If so, what's your favorite process?

2. Would this really do much, or am I better off ordering a new spring (from Chambers)?

The spring on your frizzen doesn't need to be strong. The only thing it needs to do is keep the frizzen from bouncing back and breaking your flint. I lost the Frizzen spring to my L&R Queen Anne lock many years ago. I called them up to order another and they said if I wanted to send it to them, they'd replace it for the price of the spring and go through the lock to make sure it was in good order. I mentioned that it does fire without, because it did, and the fellow explained that the mission of the frizzen spring is only to keep the frizzen from rebounding and damaging the flint and it doesn't need to be and shouldn't be a heavy spring. I lived in VA at the time and they are in North Carolina so I sent it and got it back within a week. They also went through it as promised besides installing a very fine frizzen spring and they included a note that said, "nice lock!"

 

[tnlonghunter]

The spring on your frizzen doesn't need to be strong. The only thing it needs to do is keep the frizzen from bouncing back and breaking your flint. I lost the Frizzen spring to my L&R Queen Anne lock many years ago. I called them up to order another and they said if I wanted to send it to them, they'd replace it for the price of the spring and go through the lock to make sure it was in good order. I mentioned that it does fire without, because it did, and the fellow explained that the mission of the frizzen spring is only to keep the frizzen from rebounding and damaging the flint and it doesn't need to be and shouldn't be a heavy spring. I lived in VA at the time and they are in North Carolina so I sent it and got it back within a week. They also went through it as promised besides installing a very fine frizzen spring and they included a note that said, "nice lock!"

Fine, but mine was weak enough not to keep the firzzen closed if it got much of a bump. Not a desirable characteristic in a hunting rifle that is carried through the brush. It doesn't matter how well the firzzen sparks if all the priming falls out by accident.

 

[Sam squanch]

I always figured the frizzen spring should be somewhat strong, consider this, when you use your strike a light kit, do you use some force- or just limp wrist it?

 

[rich pierce]

A rebounding frizzen destroys flints quickly.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Let me add some technical details about flintlocks. I've had the privilege of examining, disassembling, measuring, and recreating some of the finest flintlocks ever made, specifically the high-end locks made in Britain during the late 18th century and early 19th century. Manton, Mortimer, Heylin, Twigg, Nock, Bond, Innes, and Wogdon among others. I also examined and measured lower quality locks by Ketland, Grice, Field, Elston and military locks on Kings pattern muskets that were still in good shape. None had whimpy frizzen springs. A common feature for the best locks was that the force required to open the frizzen was 30-40% of the peak force required to pull the flint cock back from rest to full cock. That balance of relative forces allows a lock to fire all day long with very few if any misfires.

dave