stuck screw...........

[bob1961]

i'm having a time gitting this screw out....

and is it suposed to come out....i remember seeing rootnuke's web site on his lancaster he did and when he drilled for the lock screw he had this part seperated from the lock....

http://www.rootnuke.com/index.pl/side_pl...8&func=view

i used a tight fitting screw bit from a gunsmith set and it deformed the slot.................bob

 

[rich pierce]

no need to remove it- it holds the bolster and pan on. Need to drill behind that for your lock screw.

 

[bob1961]

i used one of them magnetic bit holders that go
in a drill with the hex end and a 1/4" wrench
over that so i can turn it with the driver bit
that fit the slot and then tapped on it with
a small hammer to shock it loose and it came out....
now it can be drilled and tapped all the way through :thumbsup: ....................bob

 

[Birddog6]

I agree with Rich.. leave the pan on the lockplate & drill thru them both at the same time & also tap thru them both at the same time. This keeps everything lined up ........

When you tap it, have the lock & sideplate on the rifle & put the tap thru the sideplate & start the tap in the lockplate. When you have a couple of threads cut & know it is going the correct angle, then remove the tap & the lock from the rifle & out it in the vice & apply tapping oil & finish tapping the lockplate & bolster. Tap a lil til tight, back it off, tap a lil more, back it off. Take your time as if you break the tap off it is sometimes a bugger to get it out ! :shake:

Good Luck !

Birddog6

 

[bob1961]

yeah them taps can be fun can't they....i was thinking of a blind hole fer the lock screw behind the lock plate....that way i need it to be by it's self when drilling and tapping it all the way through the pan piece....also how deep should the lock plate be inletted in the stock....i have bout 1/8" to play with from the flat face of the lock panel on the stock.................bob

 

[mikee51848]

From Chuck Dixon's book:
"most PA Longrifles carried hefty brass bars (3/32 - 5/32 inch) that projected half their thickness from the surface".

 

[Zonie]

I'm not sure why you want a blind hole in your bolster. To me, it seems to just make things harder to do.

My method is to determine where I want the hole to be in the lockplate bolster. Then I remove the hammer/cock, the bridle, spring etc.
I then drill this hole thru the lock plate and the bolster with the TAP DRILL.

When locating this lock screw hole in the bolster/lock, try to keep it as far aft as you can while keeping some bolster material around it. In other words, the center of the hole should be at least 1/8 inch from any of the edges of the bolster if the screw is a #10. It can be slightly closer if it is a #8 screw.

Then, putting the lock into the mortice in the stock and again, using the tap drill I use the hole in the lock as a guide and drill thru the stock to the far side.
In a sense, you are using the pre drilled hole as a custom drill jig when you do this.

Remove the lockplate from the wood and then enlarge the hole in the wood with a drill just slightly larger than the bolt threads. This will provide a clearance size with the bolt and form the hole that will guide the tap squarely into the lockplate.

(Note: At this stage, you might want to install the barrel and drill the oversize hole thru the back of the breech plug. It has a way of getting in the way of the lock bolt if you forget to do this. After the hole is drilled in the barrel, remove the barrel and enlarge this hole in the plug, to at least 1/32 of an inch larger than the bolt size.)

Reinstall the lockplate and run the tap thru the stock hole into the lockplate/bolster. As was mentioned above, you only need to tap about 2 to 3 turns worth of threads.

Remove the tap and the lockplate/bolster from the stock.

Restart the tap in the threads in the lockplate, apply the thread cutting oil and then finish tapping it all of the way thru.

Using this method, the hole in the stock will be perfectly aligned with the hole in the lock, the tapped hole will be straight with the hole in the lock, and you won't have any thread cutting oil on your wood.


As for how far the lock needs to be inletted into the stock, the answer is "just until its bolster/pan touches the side of the barrel. There must be no gaps, but at the same time, you want the wood to support the plate when the screws are tightened.

 

[Birddog6]

Just a few thoughts here, for what it is worth.... Possibly just another way of doing this lock drilling & how I would do it. No doubt lots of different ways of doing it as each will do it a lil different.........

First of all, the barrel should be fully inletted into the stock & pinned in & the lock should be fully inletted & ready to drill.

This is a Preinlet stock (right ?), so the Lock inlet & the Sideplate inlet are preinlet & basically they are where thay are..... BUT, we don't know how good of an alignment job they did precarving it with the sideplate holes vs. lockplate, so just drilling a hole in the lock & using it as a guide could leave a option of error ? (IMHO)....... correct ? So if they are not perfectly aligned & the stock perfectly Flat on Both Sides, the lock hole you drilled most likely will not hit the sideplate hole. If this is a straight barrel, you may get lucky & they hit. But I am never so lucky so I don't take that chance.

I am thinking this is a swamped barrel (right ?) & if you drill a hole straight thru the plate, since the lockplate is laying on a tapered barrel, possibly the lock panel & sideplate panel is slightly flared at the rear also ? the hole is not going to go thru the stock at 90 degrees, but rather at an angle. Thus to actually hit the lockplate hole on the other side, you have to drill the hole at an angle. (NOTE: This is even more so on a short heavy flared barrel like a "D" barrel in a Jaeger)

I suggest using a drill point jig or a drill point mounted into the drill press & greatly reduce the possibility of angle drilling errors.. Strip the lock of all hardware but the flashpan & it's retaining screw.

Remove the barrel & from the stock.

Drill a small 3/32" pilot hole in the lockplate at a slight correct angle for the rear hole in the bolster & also for the front hole. (Centerpunch the marked spot for the hole, use some feeler gauges to lift one side of the bolster to get the aprox angle & drill the pilot hole)
Mount the sideplate & the lockplate into the stock & put a small "C" clamp on them.

Mount the stock & plates onto the drillpoint & drill 1/2 way thru, then turn it over & drill the other way til the holes meet. Now measure the hole depth from sideplate outside to Inside of the lockplate & take a drill stop & set for that distance on the clearance hole drill bit or wrap a piece of electrial tape to mark the stop on the drill bit, drill a hole the size for bolt clearance from the sideplate side but stop BEFORE you hit the lockplate.

Now remove the stock from the drill press, put the barrel back into the stock, put the stock with lock & sideplates back to the drill point in drill press. Drill the rear lock bolts from both sides just enough to mark the drill location on the barrel tang base.

Remove the barrel again & drill the holes thru the tang & then go 1/8" larger than the bolt size of the lockbolt to be sure the barrel hole will clear this lock bolt.

Now go back to the stock. Take a tap & tap Thru the sideplate hole into the lockplate bolster & start the tap, backing off often to Insure you do not break the tap, just get it started & a couple of threads. Now do the front hole & get that hole started.

Now take the tap out & remove the locklate, put it in the vice with the inside of the plate Up & using tapping oil, finish tapping the holes out, and again, take it slow & back off often as not to break the tap.

Clean the tapping oil off, put the barrel into the stock & retain it, put the lockplate & sideplate in & install screws & mark them for length, cut them off & file flush to lockplate.

When you do the triggerplate to tang bolt do it basically the same method. Have a screw retain the rear of the triggerplate, have a pilot hole in the tang & the triggerplate, use the drill point to align them.

As I said, just another way of doing it ... I am sure there are 101 ways of doing it ans lots of them work.

If I missed something, ya'all just chime in. I am used to doing it rather than saying it or typing it.........

:results:

 

[bob1961]

i just read that here on the forum somewhere....yeah it's a precarve not inletted for the lock and triggers....i don't have the side plate or triggers yet....i'll be ordering them next week....most likely i'll drilling through both pieces of the lock fer the lock bolt....i have the lugs, bolts and pin set now....guess i'll jump on the lugs and git the barrel in....still have to pick up good drill bit and taps yet also....is'nt T/C's touch hole liners 1/4"-28....i like there new liners my T/C goes off every time and fast.............bob

 

[Birddog6]

If it is not inletted for the lock & side plate, I suggest you drill a test hole of about 3/16" down there the barrel channel to the RR hole (& glue in a stub plug later) & measure the thickness of the wood there to insure you have enough wood to get your front lock bolt thru it & not hit the RR hole & also this will determine how deep to set the barrel where to set the lock & sideplate & etc.

:results:

 

[Birddog6]

Well, ya definately need the sideplate as you don't know where to bring the holes out to without that. Sometimes they are straight across & sometimes you have to angle one or the other or slightly on both, just depends on the lock & the sideplate. Lots of times I make the sideplate so it fits in right & to get the bolts to align right.

:results:

 

[roundball]

.....is'nt T/C's touch hole liners 1/4"-28....i like there new liners my T/C goes off every time and fast.............bob

Yup, 1/4" x 28...TC's blisterpac has quantity two in it

 

[bob1961]

i still have one from my T/C when i replaced the sloted one :: ..............bob

 

[Zonie]

Just to clarify a little.
I was assuming the side plate was not installed. I also was assuming the lock screw holes were not drilled.
I'm not sure how anyone could supply a pre-carve with the side plate installed before the lock screw holes were drilled.
Maybe it's just the way I do things, but using the method I described above, the lock plate screws location dictates where the side plate will be installed. In fact, I don't even have a guess as to exactly where to drill the side plate holes until the thru holes are in the wood. ::

I obviously didn't get into how to locate the front screw hole, but I agree with the post above that the barrel channel and the ramrod hole locations both need to be determined. I mark these on the outside of the stock so when the lock plate is installed, I can see where to drill the front hole in the lockplate.
My methods for drilling this hole are the same as the one I described above.

As Birddog6 says, there must be a hundred ways to do the job.
:thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

i still have one from my T/C when i replaced the sloted one :: ..............bob

They are fast aren't they !!

 

[Darkhorse]

There are probably 101 ways to drill those holes. I inlet the lockplate but not the sideplate. Then I smooth the sideplate side at the same angle with the lockplate side I intend to maintain when finished (swamped barrel).
I determine where all the critical areas are, RR, Barrel, Breech plug and there measurements. Then install the lockplate and lay out my drill points.
Then I place a 1/2 flat piece of wood on the bench press table and lay the sideplate side on this and lightly clamp it. Using a pionted center I will line up a center drill with my marks, clamp the lockplate in and snug the other clamps. Then drill my tap holes through the plate and into the wood. Then remove the plate and drill thru with the clearance drill.
The plate can either be tapped before moving it (tapping from the front side will still work, it doesn't make a right hand thread a left) or tapped all the way through for perfect alingnment.
Now when your clearance holes come out they will be on the proper angle and the bolt heads will fit flush with no gaps.
I will position the sideplate and drill it, then inlet it into place.

Understand that for many years I was a Tool & Die maker, and Tool Designer. So I am comfortable in layout. But what is clear and easy for me to envision may not be so clear for someone else.
Thats why there are a 101 ways to do this job.

 

[Birddog6]

I was assuming the side plate was not installed. I also was assuming the lock screw holes were not drilled.
I'm not sure how anyone could supply a pre-carve with the side plate installed before the lock screw holes were drilled.
Maybe it's just the way I do things, but using the method I described above, the lock plate screws location dictates where the side plate will be installed. In fact, I don't even have a guess as to exactly where to drill the side plate holes until the thru holes are in the wood. ::

You will find that some of the precarves have the lock inlet & the sideplate inlet 95% finished & you cannot move them & the holes to each are not negotiable, thus you just hope you don't hit the RR channel.
I have one here right now that I am building for a guy that sent me all the parts, it so happens the RR hole wandered too high & I had to install a lug on the inside of the lockplate & put a blind hole high on the plate to get out of the RR hole. Other options were no front lock screw or a hidden "L" to latch the front of the lock under & I don't like either of those options.

It is quite interesting to me to hear all of the different way guys accomplish the same task...... Ya read one & say, "Well that would work". then another one "Well, that works too" and all this time you think ya have found the best way & done it that way for a long time..... ha ha !

That is the great thing about these forums...... You pick up lil tidbits all the time & sometimes just one small thing can make you work better & less time consuming.... And I always appreciate the tips & info.

:thumbsup: