Suitable gunstock style

[kansas_volunteer]

I bought a piece of wood that is dimensionally suitable for making a half stock in every way but one. It is too narrow to carve any sort of cheek piece. I'd like to make a stock of it but am wondering what style might work better without a cheek piece rather than having one. I've seen in print pictures of older rifles made without cheek pieces, but not many. I suppose quite a few "bargin" rifles might have been made without back in the day.

I'm thinking I might like to make a mid-18th century eastern or Midwestern sporting rifle.

Advice please?

 

[Artificer]

Phillip Ludwell Lee (Ancestor of Robert E. Lee) brought home a Turvey Rifle to Stratford Hall in VA in the early 1750's.

Jim Chambers version of an English Gentlemen's Rifle/Turvey rifle with no cheek piece is 2 1/8 inch wide at the butt - but it is not a half stock. http://www.flintlocks.com/rifles05.htm

When you mentioned a "Mid Western Rifle," I wonder if you meant to type 19th century rather than 18th century for your question?

Gus

 

[kansas_volunteer]

Right, 19th century.

Some of my ancestors were abolitionist who came to Kansas when first opened for settlement. That branch of the tree goes back to Illinois and Ohio. I don't necessarily want to build a rifle that might have been something they might have brought here, but a Midwestern style rifle is appealing, just because that's where my roots lie. A Vincent style is out of the question, with their silly buttplate and all.

My wood measures between 2 1/8 and 2 1/4 thick. If I use a slim barrel and set everything to the right side of the stock (I'm a righty) there might be a tad left on the left for a token cheek piece, but I don't see there being enough for a real functional one.

 

[Artificer]

OK, then. Sorry, though I have seen a fair number of plain Ohio and Indiana rifles, I don't follow them enough to help more.

Others should be along later on today with more info.

Gus

 

[rich pierce]

Well you're starting with a half stock and say you favor building something that could have come from the Midwest in the mid 19th century. And your blank is over 2" wide. Very few originals of that time and place have buttplate wider than 1 and 5/8" and a good many are narrower. You have plenty of wood for a cheekpiece. Study some originals. The greatest apparent "sticking out" part of most cheekpieces is below the center line where the buttstock tapers toward the narrow toe. That part requires no extra wood. Many contemporary builds have cheekpieces much more robust than the originals.

 

[Col. Batguano]

As alluded to by others, you have wood for a cheek piece. Ohio Vincent rifles have pretty narrow butts. The cheek piece is generally lower that it appears to be (especially when viewed in your rear view mirror). If you put in 3/16"-1/4" of cast off that will help, as would a few degrees of toe-in at the butt. Most shooters mount the rifle better with at least a little toe in. That also helps serve the purpose of straightening out the belly line from the cast off.

 

[Erzulis boat]

I just measured a "skinny" rifle that I built with a tiny bit of cast off and it has a definite cheeckpiece. It is a little under 1.6 at the widest.

As to the Vincent style butt, yeah, they look impractical but you just put the butt in the upper bicep, and they work just fine. To be fair, I definitely prefer a "flatter" butt, but sometimes you have to compromise to keep it somewhat historically correct.

The width of my buttplate is 1.3" and I made the curve a little less pronounced than a typical Vincent style. I built it in .40 Cal. and it's a sweet one.

 

[BrownBear]

With the flow of Leman guns from PA to Missouri in that era, I wonder if it splash over into guns for consumption in Kansas. In addition to all the trade guns headed west through Missouri, Leman made "sporting rifles" for local use in the Midwest.

I'm no historian, but I've always been attracted to the trimmer lines of the Leman sporting rifles, especially the half stocks.

Here's mine built by Ron Paull through the GRRW Collectors Association. Ron used rubbings from his original Lemans for the engraving.

 

[kansas_volunteer]

Beautiful rifle, BrownBear. It's an inspiration.

Thinking about cast off and toe in I can see how I could gain wood for a cheek piece. A good cheek piece when properly shaped causes the head to cant so the eye lines up right behind the sights. I was thinking I might not be able to get enough out of my wood to make a functional cheek piece, but I see now it can be done.

I hadn't thought about Leman sporting rifles. It's the trade rifles that first come to mind. I'll study up on them. I probably ought to visit the historical society museum and see what sort of rifles they may have from the early days. It's only a 20 minute drive.

 

[Col. Batguano]

And you can also "gain" some wood by not having the fore end come straight back from the front of the plank. Start in the front right corner, and angle to the left where the breech or nose of the comb is. Generally, that's where the bend starts to get you your cast off. Now it makes the bend back to the right side of the plank, ending at about the same place as you started way up front.

I suggest you make yourself a full sized paper or cardboard template with a top view of your prospective gun and lay it on your wood at all possible orientations to find out what is and is not possible. Don't add any excess for wood removal in your template. You'll do that when you actually get around to drawing your lines for cutting. And just to be safe, you'll probably add a little bit more to that, because wood is easier to remove than to add. But start with the bare profile, and adjust from there. Don't worry about toe in either at this stage. That will take care of itself.

 

[meanmike8665]

Wow, simply stunning.
Michael

 

[kansas_volunteer]

Wow, Colonel, that's an interesting way of dealing with things. I have all the muzzeloader building books, but dont think I've encountered that before, or did I miss something?

I've been thinking a 32-inch, 13/16ths, 45 caliber barrel might go best with this future rifle. That would be a fairly light barrel as ML barrels go and maybe a bit Midwestern-ish.

 

[BrownBear]

I've been thinking a 32-inch, 13/16ths, 45 caliber barrel might go best with this future rifle. That would be a fairly light barrel as ML barrels go and maybe a bit Midwestern-ish.

I think you're right on the money in your assessment of that barrel choice. My Leman has a 7/8" 45 caliber barrel, and in combination with the slender butt it feels distinctly muzzleheavy.

 

[Col. Batguano]

I think that little tidbit might be in "The Art of the Pennsylvania Long Rifle". One of the few things in there that isn't covered elsewhere in the other 2 books that are staples for builders. You might also be able to "gain" some wood if you tilt it a little. Basically, re-cut the top of the plank to take a little wedge off the left side. That would kick the toe out to the right a little, and make the cheek rest protrusion stick out less on the left.

Basically, with your plank, if you think 3 dimensionally and think if that stock is somehow contained in that chunk of wood, then you can probably find a way to get it out of there that isn't readily apparent when you first look at it as dimensioned lumber.

 

[Gustavo Hoefs]

For a cheek piece add a piece of some high grade and tastefully expensive wood make it an artistic feature. Frame it so it looks like the gun would not be visually successfull if it wasn't there.

 

[ZUG]

With your wood being 2" to 2-1/8" thick you have PLENTY to make a cheek piece with :wink: . Sounds to me like you need a full size paper drawing of what you want to build :hmm: . Don't make it any harder that it is - get marching :hatsoff: .