Swabbing between shot for safety.

[user 34300]

I intend to propose a rule change for my club. We are required to wet swab between shoots, this includes revolver cylinders. We shoot only patched balls and revolvers. I believe this rule is unnecessary. I see many failure to fire situations every shoot cause by wet swabbing. I think swabbing causes more hazard that it helps.

I am not talking about rapid firing with paper cartridges, I have seen footage of that happening. I am not considering accuracy enhancement from swabbing.

Can anyone provide any documented first hand cases of a patched ball rifle, pistol, or revolver discharging during loading that was determined to be caused by, or likely caused an ember???

 

[akroguy]

Ridiculous rule and completely unnecessary. Ive fired thousands of rounds in everything from muskets to rifles, breech loaders and cap n balls...often as fast as possible. Never a problem. That rule is over the top stupid.

Just my opinion, of course. Good luck!

 

[david w]

I have never heard of a live ember igniting powder being poured into the barrel. I'm not saying is hasn't happened, just not to me, and I almost never swab between shots. I will sometimes clean the barrel periodically while shooting at the range. Of course, I always load from a measure, not from the powder horn.
I don't shoot in matches, but there are timed events that one could not possibly swab in between. I have, on my own, tested myself to see how many shots I could get off in a minute.

 

[cynthialee]

use denatured alcohol for the wet swab
the warm barrel will evaporate the alcohol fast
the wet will extinguish any potential ember

everyone is happy

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I concur ... NOT needed! I've been shootin' MZLs for 50+ years, as my Father did before him and we've never HEARD of nor have WITNESSED one! And I used to consume 8-pounds or more BP annually ... which I think is pretty good! Assuming a 70-grain or lesser charge, that's at least 800 shots if only in the fowler and almost 2X that if the smallbores were used.

Now I did SEE one once ... but on YouTube where the shooter was doing a live demo with a Brown Bess for SPEED shooting using paper cartridges and he did have a charge ignite after about the 4th or th shot, IIRC. I bet that it was caused by the haste and heavy 'blank' charges he was firing.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Wet swabbing will cause problems. However, a damp swab does not. Swabbing is not done for safety issues. It is done to give a consistent bore condition for accuracy and to help with easier loading each shot. It is my personal practice to saliva dampen baby blanket flannel patches and swab between every shot. Some will argue it is necessary for safety to prevent cook-offs from hot coals left after previous shots. Such cool-offs may have happened in the annals of history but I believe it is such a rare occurrence that one should not be concerned about it. Agree, your club has a completely unnecessary rule with the wet patch thing.

 

[necchi]

I intend to propose a rule change for my club.

I do support your action for the rules change.
I'll share a story, but I don't know how to "document" an incident from 37yrs ago.
I was not present, I did see the results and did speak with the "victim" himself.
A group at an informal shooting match at a friends farm,,(alcohol was involved),, they all decided to have a "speed shoot"!!
The guy was loading from the horn,, and sure-enough,, the horn went off in his hand. He lost part of his little finger,, true story.
I can only say it was a Darwin moment for sure,, and the only incident I know of in 37yrs of a "cook-off" actually happening.
("Hold my beer-Watch this!")
I do use a between shot swab technique for improved accuracy/consistency while shooting my ML's.
If your club members are getting "fail to fire" after swabbing,, they're making the "wet" part a little bit to the extreme side.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

I intend to propose a rule change for my club. We are required to wet swab between shoots, this includes revolver cylinders. We shoot only patched balls and revolvers. I believe this rule is unnecessary. I see many failure to fire situations every shoot cause by wet swabbing. I think swabbing causes more hazard that it helps.

I am not talking about rapid firing with paper cartridges, I have seen footage of that happening. I am not considering accuracy enhancement from swabbing.

Can anyone provide any documented first hand cases of a patched ball rifle, pistol, or revolver discharging during loading that was determined to be caused by, or likely caused an ember???

Every club has these Nannies that come up with these rules intended to make everyone safe by solving a non-existent issue, when in reality they create more issue.

Ours Is: Shooters are not allowed to shoot a firearm on the line that has a sling.

The worry is that the shooter will become entangled in the sling, creating a dangerous and unsafe situation.

 

[52Bore]

‘Dieseling’ has occurred at Friendship very very few times over my 30+ years attending. Maybe 1-2 per decade. I’ve never heard of a serious result which may be because Range Officers do their job by identifying potential issues and saying something- I’ve learned to keep my can spout covered.
With nearly 1000 ML at each event for a week of shooting - it’s unfortunate, but anything can happen unexpectedly sometimes.

 

[dave951]

Completely unnecessary. To give those who say otherwise a case of the vapors, have them watch a video of the North South Skirmish Association Nationals musket match. Nobody wiping, nobody removing spent caps before loading, nobody blowing down the muzzle, and even better, no cookoffs after thousands of rounds expended.

In my years shooting black powder and specifically muzzleloaders both in reenacting and live fire with hundreds of thousands rounds expended, I've had precisely one cookoff. If you're using good loading technique, the worst that will happen is a black powder tattoo and soiled undergarments.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Utter nonsense and ofcourse, a loaded firearm at a busy range that won't fire is perfectly safe
Judging by the many variations of a pantomime that get suggested for a stuck ball here.

 

[Okie Hog]

Can anyone provide any documented first hand cases of a patched ball rifle, pistol, or revolver discharging during loading that was determined to be caused by, or likely caused an ember???

No.

Met a guy at Wheeler Sports in Elkins, WV who was missing a couple fingers. He claimed his muzzleloader went off while loading due to an ember.

After the guy departed two other shooters told me not to believe anything the man said. The wounded muzzle loader shooter was famous for capping his gun prior to loading. Claimed it saved time.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Pure rubbish. I shoot 25-75 shots at a time and have never swabbed at any time.
Some times I do blow down the barrel and get the smoke out of the touch hole.
But thats just for flat landers who think that sort of thing is cool.

The Brits had to be able to fire 3 times in 5 minutes. They didnt even use patches.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

Just change the rules to require blowing down the barrel after every shot. This will eliminate the problem that doesn't exist.

 

[user 34300]

After the guy departed two other shooters told me not to believe anything the man said. The wounded muzzle loader shooter was famous for capping his gun prior to loading. "Cap or prime at the line only" is a hard rule I have no issue with.

That is common, lying I mean. I once worked in a gun shop. More often than not, when an accident occurred the shooter found an excuse to blame someone else.

Making stuff up after an accident seems like it may be a source of the "an ember" caused the accidental discharge line of thinking.

 

[mushka]

I spit patch between every shot, not to put out embers, but to clean the barrel some and make the next shot easier to load. I'm never in a hurry.

 

[Robby]

The world is going down the poop chute, and over run with the stupid people who survive only because of stupid laws, stupid regulations, and stupid litigation that ensures their survival past puberty. When people make their own decisions there is something called freedom and it has alway proven to be successful.
Robby

 

[Rock Home Isle]

It’s bad enough that there is a segment of the general population that try to negatively impact our rights and privileges, but when we do it to ourselves…silly beyond belief.

 

[DuncNZ]

I was at a shoot once where we were divided into teams of 5 and were driven back and forth in a feed wagon while we shot at a gong in the entrance to a small fort , The idea was we were in a river boat which had pounded the fort on the sight 100 years before . My mate was speed loading, using plastic phials, his PH Musketoon when it went off as he poured the powder down the barrel , all he got was a bad burn on his right thumb and forefinger and everlasting black tattoos scattered all over his hand . One club I shot at has 2 holes in the range roof where ramrods had been fired when loading . It has happened , it can happen and it will happen , but using a wet swab between shots is taking things too far , safe loading and gun handling practices are all that is needed . The wet swab must make for a long shoot . Most shoots I have been in have ½ and hour shooting time , which is plenty of time to get off 10 shots in safety .
When people try to do things in a hurry, things tend to go wrong .

 

[biliff]

Regarding ridiculous rules, our club used to have a requirement for flintlocks to have a blast shield set up on BOTH sides of the gun. Took years to get rid of that one and it was universally ignored in the meantime which is the unfortunate side effect of stupid rules.

Regarding the must wipe rule, what do they say about guns with patent breeches? Are you supposed to run a damp pipe cleaner up there every time?