swaged or shaved?

[M. De Land]

I don't worry about getting the wads in perfectly flat as long as all the edges are in the chamber mouth.
As long as there is enough powder in the chamber to make a compressed load once the ball or conical is seated the wad will be pushed down on the powder and conform to the base of the conical or the hemisphere of the ball.
The ball will make the wad shaped like a convex and it will compress the powder the same way.
The conical will compress the wad flat on the same level as the bullet base.If the bullet is cocked so will be the wad.
Balls as far as I can tell do not suffer from this and will flatten the wad out against the powder until compressed into the bottom hemisphere shape of the ball.
Either way the wad will be pushed by the projectile into the powder and will not be cocked in the chamber if the projectile is seated straight.
You may have already noticed that when ever powder in charged into a chamber mouth the surface of the dropped charge is more or less even all around.

 

[smoothshooter]

Does the rack and pinion type loading lever seat balls with less effort than the simpler 1851 navy type?
I have always wondered about that, but could never do an apples - to - apples comparison, since my 1860 Colt and 1852 Navy are in different calibers, in case that makes a difference.

 

[smoothshooter]

In my experience the orientation of the wad makes no difference. They can even be loaded on edge and the ball seated on top with no noticeable loss in accuracy ( at least by me ). Even square wads are okay. I had to use some half circle shaped wads in my '51 Navy the other day that were .44's cut in halves, and later thirds, because I had run out of the smaller ones for the .36, and everything worked just fine for the hundred or so shots fired.
It must be kept in mind that the only purpose of the wad is for lubrication, unless it is being used to bring the seated ball up closer to the chamber mouth with a reduced powder charge. It is not a gas seal at all, from any direction, because as the ball is seated on top of the wad, the wad will " cup " itself around the rear of the ball causing the edges of the wad to pull away from the chamber walls.

 

[M. De Land]

WEll, sort of , your forgetting that the front of the compressed powder column is a partial gas seal until it ignites which is several inches up bore, long after the ball or bullet has obturated into the grooves and sealed the bore.

 

[smoothshooter]

Good point, and can't disagree with that ; I was only talking about the wad.
The same would apply to a rigid wad of some type loaded under a ball in a smoothbore or rifle.

 

[MSW]

I use the same method as CynthiaLee, but I have a dedicated stick, lovingly polished and preserved. (actually it's just been lucky enough to have been in my range box for a while, so I guess it can stay since it's found a legitimate use).

I would posit that shoving them in doesn't really make all that much difference (at least, not with my dreadful marksmanship). but it makes me feel better.

either way, Make good smoke! :wink:

 

[Sandan027]

Actually to all who responded, Thank you.
So far my dedicated "wad truing device" has been my nipple pick, not the wire but the housing.
Thinking about Cynthialee's response, I just might have to give the off frame cylinder loading a try. Loading the gun is the "most involved" part of the process so maybe with the cylinder off the frame it'll be slightly less "involved"
Since it seems it's nigh impossible to load a RB off center, maybe I've been to focused on getting the wad seated just right as it seems from the responses.
I'm also going to try no wad between powder and ball.

 

[Tom Compton]

I only shoot my ROA for target work.

How I do it, not saying anyone else is wrong or that this is the only way. If something else works for you, march on.

First I run a patch coated in Hodgdon Spit Ball (SB) thru the bore and one chamber of the ROA. Yes I still have a little SB but looking for an adequate replacement.

Target load is 20 gr FFg (how much powder does it take to put a hole in the target?) and = volume of cream of wheat filler. Shave the ball in and cover the ball w/ SB. Yes I still have a little SB but looking for an adequate replacement.

After 5 shots I wipe the bore and chamber with a saliva dampened patch and repeat shooting regimen. After 5 shots and wiping the barrel looks like it hasn't been shot.
TC

 

[cynthialee]

Just don't cap them chambers until it is otherwise loaded and the cylinder is on the gun.

 

[Sandan027]

Where's the fun in that? Just kidding. I wouldn't think of capping it til I'm ready to shoot, but thanks for the head's up. Safety advice is always welcome as it should be.

 

[Bob4BVM]

in reply to the OP's question of 'shaved or swaged', I think I read the same lengthy C&B website discussion you are referring to, a couple years back. Most of what the guy said there seemed to make tons of sense. I even printed off a copy of it, I still read it now & then.

I have since chamfered my cylinders and do notice more ease of loading-you do not get that sudden jerk as when shaving a ring, but rather a nice smooth swage into the cylinder.
Plus it makes sense to swage a longer 'waist' on the ball, rather than remove the material , not to mention it is nice now not to have to deal with little lead wires getting into the action or falling all over the place when loading; that in itself is a reason to consider swaging.

Another subject he covers well in that article is the use & purpose of lubes. I have always thought of over-ball lube as kind of a joke, it's mostly blown away by the 2nd shot. The writer's theory is that lube is for fouling control, ie it keeps the BP fouling soft so it can be easily wiped away, Based on that he says the lube should be BEHIND the ball; powder-(optional)filler-wad-LUBE-ball. I have been loading the way for the past few years now and I believe the guy is spot on. His system works for me.
I am new here and I see we are not allowed to post links,(seems odd), but you can probably find that article by searching for "C&B Revolver Loading".

What the guy says may be controversial, but I believe it is worth a try. YMMV.

Go make some smoke,
Bob

 

[smoothshooter]

Why are you using such tight wads?
They have no effect as gas seals anyway.
I often use .36 caliber wads in my .44. Lubricates and shoots just fine.

Square wads work just as well as round ones, I have found.

 

[Sandan027]

The wads were bought at Cabelas. .36 cal maybe they're a little oversized. Anyhow I've pretty much solved the problem by taking a bit more time centering them and slightly seating them by finger then final seating when I seat the ball. I've tried with no wad too and that works fine also. Accuracy both ways is good, but I like the idea of a lubed wad to keep the fouling soft. Thanks all, i appreciate the discussion and feedback.

 

[robinsroost]

If you use a properly sized dowel rod to square the wads on the powder charge could you also use the same rod to make sure the caps are tightly seated on the nipples? robin :hmm:

 

[azmntman]

Other end, you could carve it fit :idunno:

 

[budcatoe]

I was in a gun shop a while back and another customer mentioned to me that he could not keep the wads in place when shooting his pistol. He was putting the wad over the ball after the ball was seated. I explained the correct order (powder, wad, then ball) and a sales person in the store overheard the conversation. He, in a very rude manner, told other customer how stupid I was and that my way would contaminate the powder and cause misfires. It turned out that he was the "expert" who showed the other customer how to use the wads.

 

[M. De Land]

I hate it when I think I'm positively right about some fact only to find out that I'm in actuality dead wrong! It's humiligraten!!! :rotf:
I'm told Crow is an acquired taste but still haven't leaned to like it much. :rotf:

 

[AZbpBurner]

I grew up with the 1861 Colt my Dad brought home from an OGCA show around 1969. I always seated the ball firmly over powder & used Crisco over the seated ball, as that was the fashion at that time. It took me 20 years to talk Dad out of the 1861, since it was doubtful he'd ever fire it again, having narrowed his target shooting to a .38 spl. semi auto. Meanwhile I had already accumulated some other cap & ball revolvers. The felt wads seem to work well, but caution to not soak them with lube, since when you squeeze wad between powder & ball, the lube soaks into the powder & causes great mischief.

Several years ago, after reading about searches for the right felt, buying old hat, getting the right punch, I decided to try paper wade. A 1/2 square of 2-ply TP with a tiny dab of ball lube folded up inside, seated between ball & powder works great. For .44 cal, use a full sheet. You don't need picks or extra steps to keep a paper wad straight, since it's mostly a ball of paper that compresses no matter how you insert it.

The bore stays cleaner than when a lot of excess ball lube is used, and a 250 sheet roll is good for around 500 rounds of .36 cal. fired.

 

[Sandan027]

That's a great idea. Thanks