Swastikas as a decoration

[Keith]

In another thread it came up that Indians used the Swastika symbol, sometimes as a decoration on guns. I wondered how the Nazis came to use a North American Indian symbol for their own.
http://www.intelinet.org/swastika/swastika_intro.htm
This link tries to explain that. There are actually several chapters describing different theories.
http://www.luckymojo.com/swastika.html This also talks a little about the history of the Swastika.
The Swastika was used in many cultures, not just Native American Indian ones, as a sign of good luck. It was even used by Jewish people prior to the the Nazis. So for whatever reason Hitler choose the Swastika as the symbol of the Nazis it seems it had nothing to do with an interest in American Indians, not surprisingly.
I just thought I would share this if anyone is interested.

 

[Gary]

Swastikas are OK so long as they're properly displayed & not flipped around like those nasty Nazis did. When he flew across the Atlantic in the Spirit of St. Louis, Lucky Lindberg had a Swastika painted on the inside of his propellor hub.

 

[Musketeer]

Arizona Highways magazine each month has a section of historic photographs of various places/people in the state. Last year they had a picture of a highway marker that clearly had a swastika at the top of it. It said that the southwestern Indians believed that it was a symbol of luck and protection from evil. Apparently, many road signs in the state of AZ had swastikas on them up until the '30's when Hitler started using it as his symbol. If I can find the issue, I'll scan the pic so you can see it. :thumbsup:

 

[Gary]

Don't have the book in front of me, but some US Infantry Division use to have a blue swastika as its emblem.

 

[Keith]

Unfortunately due to the negative connotations I doubt many people would accepting of a swastika regardless of how period correct it is. I just thought this was sort of interesting.
It is alos interesting that it is so common a symbol amongst cultures that never would have sny contact with one another.

 

[bulletman]

I heard the swastika goes back thousands of years and was a very religious symbol and thats why Hitler chose it, he is the one that gave it a sinister meaning.

 

[Keith]

Yeah, that is my understanding. The little I have read it was always a good luck symbol or something favorable. The Nazis use of the swastika is why we have negative conotations of the symbol now. Anyway another thread got me wondering so I looked a couple of things up and thought I would share.

 

[Ravenx]

The swastika dates back probably more than 20,000 years at least. Of all the symbols in the world that are archetypes found all over the globe, the swastika is actually one of the oldest. It is generally accepted that the swastika is of Indo-European-Indo-Aryan origin, which is how it comes to be common among very ancient Hindu temples in India. Some Buddhists use the symbol. The actual meaning of the swastika is it's a "Sun Wheel", a symbol of the power and blessings of the Sun. For it to be used among AmerIndians means it crossed the land bridge over the Bering Strait from Siberia some 20,000 years ago. The steppes of Russia are the point of origin for most of the original Indo-European tribes. The Germanic tribes, the Goths and so forth, were the last of the Indo-European tribes to come out of the Black Sea region, being pushed ahead of the Huns. It is because they were the last Indo-European peoples who used this symbol that Hitler took it to be a Germanic symbol when, in reality, it actually belongs to the world as a whole. The position upon which the arms of the swastika point, anciently, may have actually been in relation to the season of which the symbol was intended to pertain to at that time (i.e. autumn/ winter or spring/summer) or for which talismanic purpose it was being used, be that securing blessings or warding off evil.

 

[Zonie]

Speaking from ignorance (so what's new?), I was told the symbol as used by many indians had the arms pointing in a counter-clockwise direction, while the German Swastika pointed in the clockwise direction.
I have seen photos of old indian tipis which seemed to give some validity to this.

I also have heard of modern Reenactors with this counter-clockwise swastika on their tipis and the ignorant guests (and other reenactors) raising hell about its presence.

Has anyone else heard of this distinction concerning the direction of the arms?

 

[Musketeer]

Has anyone else heard of this distinction concerning the direction of the arms?

I think most of us have heard this at one time or another; However, I think it's a bit of misinformation. I"ve seen pics of ancient swastikas that angle both ways: left and right. See pic below.

It's a bit hard to see, but you can at least see that it angles to the right just like the Nazi version (which I didn't post a picture of because we all know what it looks like, and it is a VERY painful image for some folks to see!). :thumbsup:

 

[frontloader]

Hi zonie
I have a few books about the southwest tribes that shows the swastikas in a counter-clockwise drection.I been to a couple of reservations in the eighty and saw the same thing counter-clockwise.

 

[gordy]

I think Ravens explaination is pretty close to accurate.Much is based on very old finds.Most folks on this forum would not reject it on the basis that hitler adopted it,and would accept it for it's historical value,"but "it might be hard to validate this to many who had suffered under Hitler, or had relatives that did.I had thought to use it on a carved powderhorn,but rejected the idea because of this. :thumbsup:

 

Now see here is something new to me.
I new that many people had pinwheels that look somewhat like a swastika
However I was under the understanding that the swastika used by Nazi Germany was not a pinwheel but a grain sickle taken from a horse drawn sickle mower that Hitler had seen as a child. This would be much like what we call a flail mower today with 4 fixed blades with pivoting ends at the tips.
I was under the impression he took this design and based it on much the same principles as the Russian hammer and sickle.

Also I believe many nation have outlawed the swastika in any form and it cannot be displayed for any reason historical or not. I used to build RC aircraft and while based in Germany I built a ME109 and a ME262 these where big modles with 80 and 100 inch wing spans and both with the standard swastika tail markings. I would fly them at a local football field. I actually got a ticket one day from the bergermaster for displaying Nazi propaganda

 

[Ravenx]

Hitler first saw the swastika painted on the helmets of the German Freikorps in Weimar Germany after WW1. He became interested in it and "studied" it after that, though not closely enough.