Swiss 1.5g Powder

[Dphar]

Yet, there is still a group on this forum who claim Goex is just as good.

Goex is far better now than it was even 5 years ago or so.
Most shooters probably cannot tell the difference.
Dan

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Swiss has improved over time too. I have to wonder if older powder was used for some of the test.

 

[Jason Lewis]

there is O in charcoal. it is not pure carbon. the empirical formula is C7H4O. to turn charcoal into pure C takes a heating of greater than 2732 degrees F.

here's the reaction.

4 KNO3 + C7H4O + 2 S -> 2 K2S + 4 CO2 + 3CO + 2H2O + 2N2

however the bulk of the O2 still comes from the KNO3.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The best way to reduce the Sap content of wood made into charcoal, and therefore reduce the Creosote levels is to cut the wood in the wintertime, when the leaves are off the trees, and the sap is down in the roots, waiting for Spring.

Believe it or not, this little bit of knowledge is NOT understood by all Mills, or even all lumber companies who actually cut the trees. Because of the wide use of wood products made today, making laminates, or veneers, in addition to stick lumber, the loggers can be forgiven their lack of concern about sap levels in the wood. With the computerized testing equipment available to most mills, however, they should be able to do a better job of sorting wood to lower the sap levels, and set aside winter cut wood for this purpose, rather than throwing in just anything. Alder grows in both Europe, and over much of the US. There are many different species of alders, and some knowledge of the kind of alder that is being cut needs to exist to get the best alder( a member of the birch family) for use in making charcoal.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

The best way to reduce the Sap content of wood made into charcoal, and therefore reduce the Creosote levels is to cut the wood in the wintertime, when the leaves are off the trees, and the sap is down in the roots, waiting for Spring.

The alder delivered to the Swiss is cut in late winter as the sap is coming back up. This adds sugar to the wood and is actually beneficial. The wood will contain 20-25% moisture which will be given up leaving the sugar. The bark is easily removed when the sap is high. The wood is aged 3 years before using.

Creosote levels are dealt with by the temperatures used. The Swiss found that creosote is beneficial in producing a moist burning powder. They intentionally keep temps below 320 degrees C to retain 8% creosote.

There is a HUGE amount of learning that can be done if you take the time to read even the first dozen pages of this link. The Swiss really do know what they're doing.
Swiss Charcoal

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I've read the whole thing 3 times. It's fascinating.

I love the old equipment they use too. It seems so fitting for muzzleloaders.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Perhaps you misunderstood my comment. I never intended to say that ALL Sap was missing from the trees in winter, nor that all creosote was gone. I was not aware of this article, however, and thank you. That 3-year aging adds to the expense of the charcoal. Sugar is basically a hydrocarbon, and when the water is removed, what is mostly left is carbon. The small percent of creosote is easily consumed by the high pressure of a powder charge burning in a barrel behind a PRB. Otherwise, The creosote would add significantly to the sticky residue left in the barrel. The ONE THING all users of Swiss powders comment on is HOW CLEAN it burns.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

I include the following quoted paragraphs to stress the importance Swiss attaches to the quality of their charcoal. To Paul, Capper and others who read this, my appologies.

Quote
The Swiss powder plant imports Alder Buckthorn wood from Slovenia where it is cut and harvested in late winter just after the ground has thawed and the sap begins rise in the trees. It is at this time of year when the bark is most easily removed by stripping with a sharp knife.

The bark on Alder Buckthorn and Black Alder is rather thin and soft so while
saturated with the freshly risen sap it is easily peeled away from the wood using a sharp knife. When freshly cut, the wood will contain about 20 to 25% water based on weight of wood. When cut and placed under roof, this water content will drop considerably in a period of 2 to 3 weeks. Once the wood has been cut, peeled and partially dried it is ready for shipment.

An interesting note in this wood topic:
The Alder Buckthorn is cut in late winter just after the sap rose in the tree with the
thawing of the ground. The sap at that time of year being rich in sugar which the tree had stored in its root system. This sugar acting as food for the tree while it sets out flowers and develops leaves to the point where they would produce the sugar the tree needs for growth. This sugar remains in the wood after it has dried. The finished charcoal, in addition to having carbonized cellulose would also contain some caramelized sugar. Simple experiments have shown that this inclusion of caramelized sugar is of benefit in the charcoal in the finished powder.
Unquote



And here please note the steps intentionally taken to produce a “moist-burning” powder. Controlling temps to intentionally retain creosote is a step other makers do not do. One important source feels that if Goex had retained creosote, they may have driven Swiss from the US market. I’ve no opinion on that.


Quote
The gunpowder produced in the Swiss powder plant is the only presently produced black powder that is truly "moist-burning". This is the direct result of the creosote content of their in-house produced charcoal. When you bum pure carbon you get no water as a product of combustion. Burn a liquid hydrocarbon and some water will be produced during powder combustion. During the charring of the wood, lignin in the wood is converted to various phenolic-structured hydrocarbons. One of these being creosote. The creosote produced during the destructive distillation of wood is different from that produced by the destructive distillation of coal or by the "cracking' of petroleum crude oils.
When the Swiss limit there wood charring temperature to 300 to 320 degrees Centigrade they insure that the creosote produced during the destructive distillation process is retained within the charcoal. Allowing the charring temperature to rise above 320 degrees Centigrade will cause the creosote to flash off and leave the cylinder in the cylinder exhaust gases. By 350 degrees Centigrade, all of the creosote will have been flashed off and lost through the cylinder stack vent. The Swiss charcoal will show about 8% by weight of creosote while other brands will show none to only a slight trace.
Unquote


I hope you fellows will take the time to read this link all the way through. The same location has valuable info on other powders also.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Between both of us we posted the link in the other Swiss thread 3-4 times. I guess nobody clicks on links.

 

[FPDoc]

That's one heck of an article on black Powder production. :thumbsup:

 

[Jason Lewis]

that is a great article on swiss powder production. it's pretty neat to see where my powder comes from and read the data on it.