Swiss Black Powder

[Sharp Shooter]

Im thinking about trying some new powder next time I order.

I want to try Swiss and or Grafs/Schuetzen.

How are these powders? I have shot and like both Goex and KIK. I do not use a whole lot of powder so Swiss would not be too bad as far as cost. Is it worth it? What is so great about Swiss? How much do you cut your loads by with Swiss?

What are your opinions on Grafs/Scheutzen?


Thanks


Kirk

 

[David W.]

Swiss is the most consistant powder you can buy. They have the process down pretty good. It is hotter, meaning you use about 10% less than you would with any other powder and it fouls less. One of the things that makes the powder so good is the charcoal. I heard what type of wood is used one time, but it doesn't come to mind. Swiss is what you will see most competition shooers use.

As far as Schutzen, it is fairly close to KIK in all respects.

 

I've not used either, but I'll bet that if you were to search this section for "SWISS" and GRAFS", you'd get feedback going back years.

 

[redwing]

Swiss is outstanding. I use Swiss in B/P Ctg. rifles. In M/L I use the Wano Schutzen Brand which is the same powder as the Graf in a defferent can. :thumbsup:

 

[Larry Pletcher]

. . . . . One of the things that makes the powder so good is the charcoal. I heard what type of wood is used one time, but it doesn't come to mind. . . . . .

Swiss uses alder for making charcoal. The bark is removed as well. Bark removal may be a key to the quality of the charcoal. Another key difference is that Swiss charcoal is ground almost to dust - quite a bit finer that other brands.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Carbmonster]

As someone getting back into BPML I am fascinated by the fact that something that would almost seem generic in the modern era is still so variable. I am always fascinated to read historic accounts of different powders and now have to rethink what powder I buy. Never realized modern BP was so variable by company. Man, am I glad I joined this forum.

 

[Dphar]

As someone getting back into BPML I am fascinated by the fact that something that would almost seem generic in the modern era is still so variable. I am always fascinated to read historic accounts of different powders and now have to rethink what powder I buy. Never realized modern BP was so variable by company. Man, am I glad I joined this forum.

There have been differences in powder quality or a long time. Powder making is far more complex than many realize. But there are many things that can effect this. The charcoal used is key. The charcoal used in Swiss is not even available in the US. They us distilled water SFAIK, mill it longer, use a little more saltpeter and press it to the optimum density. It is then broken, sieved and polished WITHOUT graphite. In the old days graphite was the hallmark of lower grade powder, back in the day the British Military would not accept powder so coated. It gives the powder an artificial shine but increases the fouling since the graphite does not change during combustion.
Swiss will cause increased fouling problems in some RB guns if TOO MUCH IS USED so don't over load. If it fouls heavily then back the charge of in 5-10 grain intervals. It generally takes 10-12% less Swiss to produce the same velocity so this is not a problem velocity wise. It works great in all my RB guns.
Its the choice for serious BP competitors. http://www.bpcr.net/index-a.htm
Dan

 

[paulvallandigham]

If Swiss powders are not coated with Graphite, that would make them susceptible to ignition by static electricity. Its the Graphite coating on Goex and similar powders that routes static electric charges around the outside of the powder granules, instead of allow the charge to go Through the granule, and build up heat.

Just something to think about. :hmm: :thumbsup:

 

[bob243]

This brings up a really interesting thought. If Swiss is more susceptible to static, is there something special about the plastic container it is in? Usually plastic is more prone to retain static electricity than a metal can. :idunno:
(same reason I was always told not to put a plastic gas can on my plastic bedliner in the back of my pickup.)

 

[poordevil]

I saw some Swiss 1 1/2Fg at a local gun show for 20 bucks a pound. Is that a good price and would 1 1/2Fg be good for anything? My guess a large smooth bore??

P

 

[David W.]

I saw some Swiss 1 1/2Fg at a local gun show for 20 bucks a pound. Is that a good price and would 1 1/2Fg be good for anything? My guess a large smooth bore??

P

1-1/2 Fg burns better in .69 and larger guns. I guess it may be OK in my .62, but I always shoot FFFg. $20 is pretty fair for a single pound.

I have been using Swiss for around 20 years. Even without graphite, I have not blown myself up yet from static electricty. Guess I could one day though. :shocked2: :nono: :shake: :rotf:

 

[bob243]

1-1/2 is also pretty common for a Gibbs or similar fast twist bullet barrel for people shooting long range.

I also seen 1-1/2 shoot quite well at 130yards out of a 52" long 54cal chunk gun (52" is a guestimate, but is was definately longer than the chunk I had with a 48" barrel )

 

[Dave K]

1 1/2F in Swiss is actually very close to 2 F in everything else that I am aware of. I am using 2F Swiss now in my guns over 50cal. I would love to try 1 1/2F Swiss in them. The price asked is a good price for Swiss.

 

[Dphar]

1 1/2F in Swiss is actually very close to 2 F in everything else that I am aware of. I am using 2F Swiss now in my guns over 50cal. I would love to try 1 1/2F Swiss in them. The price asked is a good price for Swiss.

Friends using 1.5f say its virtually identical to FFG in rifles shooting light projectiles.
I use it in my 45-100. It gives a about the same velocity reported by FG in this cartridge originally is similar weight bullets.
It also shoots extremely well in a friends 45 caliber RB match rifle.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

If Swiss powders are not coated with Graphite, that would make them susceptible to ignition by static electricity. Its the Graphite coating on Goex and similar powders that routes static electric charges around the outside of the powder granules, instead of allow the charge to go Through the granule, and build up heat.

Just something to think about. :hmm: :thumbsup:

FFFFG Swiss has been tested http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html

Dan

 

[paulvallandigham]

Along the same lines, Dan, I don't ever recall receiving a shock picking up any plastic bottle. So, even tho plastic does hold SOME static electricity( you can make the hair on your arm stand up passing a warm plastic bottle near your arm), I don't believe it can hold enough to generate the heat necessary to ignite the powder inside.

 

[poordevil]

That was good info Dan...Thanks

P

 

[fyrfyter43]

Along the same lines, Dan, I don't ever recall receiving a shock picking up any plastic bottle. So, even tho plastic does hold SOME static electricity( you can make the hair on your arm stand up passing a warm plastic bottle near your arm), I don't believe it can hold enough to generate the heat necessary to ignite the powder inside.

I can tell you from experience (I work in the plastics industry, doing electrical testing for wire and cable compounds) that static electricity from plastics is a very real concern. I've worked with compounds that, during processing, could shock you from more than a foot away.

Of course, alot has to do with the properties of the specific plastic compound. I'm sure Swiss uses a compound with anti-static properties.