Swiss Powder vrs Goex

[Zonie]

My confusion seems to be in the granulation of swiss vrs goex.

As far as I know, Swiss powder sold in the US has the same size grains as the other black powders sold in the US. That is, Swiss 3Fg sold in the US is the same size as GOEX 3Fg.

It's when looking at the Swiss powder sold in Europe that things get confusing. The size grading system they use there is (I think) backwards from the size grading system we use.
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I think their 1F powder is similar in size to our 4F and their 4Fg is similar to our 1Fg.
They also offer black powder using a 1/2 designation indicating it is half way between the whole number grades.

OK my European friends. What's the right answer?

 

[Carbon 6]

And Swiss is produced with charcoal made from alderwood gathered by gypsies.

Wood Nymphs.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Wood Nymphs.

Naked Wood Nymphs...

 

[Carbon 6]

As far as I know, Swiss powder sold in the US has the same size grains as the other black powders sold in the US. That is, Swiss 3Fg sold in the US is the same size as GOEX 3Fg.

It's when looking at the Swiss powder sold in Europe that things get confusing. The size grading system they use there is (I think) backwards from the size grading system we use.
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I think their 1F powder is similar in size to our 4F and their 4Fg is similar to our 1Fg.
They also offer black powder using a 1/2 designation indicating it is half way between the whole number grades.

OK my European friends. What's the right answer?

http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/admin/uploads/file/Swiss Product Informational Sheet.pdf

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Swiss 2F might be the best powder ever made as far as being consistent. It does have a slightly harder "fouling ring" than Goex imo.

Swiss 3F has an unbelievably tough fouling ring. If you don't mind wiping between shots it's okay, but I can't get more than 4-5 shots with it without wiping.

With Goex- especially Old Enynsford I can easily load 60 plus shots without wiping.

I don't see Swiss being worth it personally, unless you want 2F for strict target work.

I can't detect any accuracy difference between Swiss or O. Eynsford.

In my .45 using 65gr. of 3f Swiss gave 17fps (15' from muzzle) more velocity than O. Eynsford using10 shot strings.

I don't see 17fps as being significant, especially for the price difference of roughly 1/3 more, but the super hard fouling ring is what really turned me off to Swiss 3F

Curious observation regarding the fouling ring. I shoot 100 grains FFF Swiss in a .50 with a lubed over powder felt wad. Seating is smooth an easy without resistance and there is no need to wipe between shots.

The bullet left strike on the buffalo below was my fourth shot fired without wiping at 120 yards.

 

[Bad Karma]

I’m waiting for the OE to arrive and when it does I’ll give it a workout. Swiss is very good powder and it’s all I’ve used since it became available so the competition is stiff. I’m not shooting in competition but I am always shooting with purpose so I am nearly as demanding as if I were.

 

[Zonie]

http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/admin/uploads/file/Swiss Product Informational Sheet.pdf

I think your link takes one to the Swiss powder US size chart.

Follow this link to see what the European sizes are.

http://www.blackpowder.ch/powder/shooting-powder

The most obvious difference is the European sizes do not use the letter F.
Their No 1 powder is 0,250- 0,500 mm in size. That's .010-.020 inches.
Their No 4 powder is 0,850- 1,200 mm in size. That's .034-.067 inches.

 

[rodwha]

 

[Greasecookie]

Naked Wood Nymphs...

Calm yourself.

 

[Carbon 6]

.

 

[AlanG]

Curious observation regarding the fouling ring. I shoot 100 grains FFF Swiss in a .50 with a lubed over powder felt wad. Seating is smooth an easy without resistance and there is no need to wipe between shots.

Wouldn't a lubed over powder felt wad amount to a form of wiping?

It certainly clears thing out before loading the ball and would put the ball ahead of the crud ring.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Wouldn't a lubed over powder felt wad amount to a form of wiping?

It certainly clears thing out before loading the ball and would put the ball ahead of the crud ring.

The wad is not tight enough to scrub away fowling. I suspect its contribution does not occur until the moment of ignition.

 

[Bad Karma]

My confusion seems to be in the granulation of swiss vrs goex.

I expect it to be the same. We will see.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Let's see...,

I buy from Graf & Sons, and I buy in bulk as a solo pound plus the flat hazmat fee is a bit much for a single pound.

Since shipping and hazmat fees are the same for the same weight of powder, only the price difference per brand matters when it comes to cost...,

5 battle events per year, and each event burns a full pound of powder.....Graf's Powder = $82.95 GOEX "Reenactor" = $89.95 Swiss = $139.95
Three cans of 3Fg for hunting and targets...……....……………………………………………………………….GOEX "Red Label" = $59.97 Swiss = $83.97
Total for GOEX and Grafs mixed order $142.92
Total for order of SWISS, $223.92...OR if I still used the Graf's for blanks..., $166.92

"AH but..., Swiss is "more powerful"...OK so IF that was important, then I'd add one extra pound of GOEX to cover the load increase to equal the MV of the Swiss per each shot..., $162.91
"AH but the Swiss is cleaner burning"...I don't shoot speed matches, and if I was that worried about cleanup, I wouldn't be shooting black powder....,

"AH, but..., GOEX is made in America"...right, and having an American powder maker that stays in business is better (imho) than supporting a product from overseas that can more easily halted or restricted.



LD

 

[Grenadier1758]

But, I would consider Olde Eynsford by GOEX. Oh, who am I kidding. For me it is the Goex Reenactors' Powder for the Reenactments and when I use my smoothbore for the woods walks and GOEX 3fg for hunting and targets. With my present eyesight, I probably should stick to the blanks and targets.

 

[Bassdog1]

I have shot all three in recent months Goex 3f, Olde Eynsford 3f and Swiss 3 f. I have been able to get good groups with all three and only slight differences in load volume, fouling and cleanup. Not enough to cause me to shy away from any one of them for hunting or plinking. If I was shooting competitively I would spend a lot of time extensively testing each one for a particular rifle. Down to a few pounds of powder so am going to buy a full case and decided to go with a case of Ole Eynsford. Can pick it up within about an hour of home for $400.00 plus tax.

 

[Erwan]

Hi Rodwha,
I did saw that picture somewhere before...
This one too:

 

[Erwan]

"AH but..., Swiss is "more powerful"...OK so IF that was important, then I'd add one extra pound of GOEX to cover the load increase to equal the MV of the Swiss per each shot..., $162.91
"AH but the Swiss is cleaner burning"...I don't shoot speed matches, and if I was that worried about cleanup, I wouldn't be shooting black powder....,

"AH, but..., GOEX is made in America"...right, and having an American powder maker that stays in business is better (imho) than supporting a product from overseas that can more easily halted or restricted.

In fact I really doubt that the Swiss powder is so different that yours powders...
Cleaner burning, I don't believe that the difference can be great...

The Swiss powder have two defaults: too dry and deposits are too hard and the price is greater than others...
About speed with my chrono this powder is almost equivalent to my habitual French powder and I'm sure that your GOEX makes not a great difference (with the same chrono)...

I'll tell you why I use a lot of Swiss powder: in France the BP begins to be hard to find and we have to buy Swiss powder...
We are limited to four pounds of all kinds of BP (from 4F to 2F Swiss and/or Frech) so we are frequently often run out of powder, so we have to buy what is available, sometime Swiss and sometime French powder...

If you are sure that you can get American powder like GOEX for long time take the American powder this is the right way about that.
Since the begining of the year the government Macron wants that we use Pyrodex to replace the black powder but I don't feel good about that: no more French or Swiss powder or real BP. In one or two years the BP will disappear, except for the MLAIC competitions.

 

[pchwcf50110]

Let's see...,



"AH but..., Swiss is "more powerful"...OK so IF that was important, then I'd add one extra pound of GOEX to cover the load increase to equal the MV of the Swiss per each shot..., $162.91


LD

Swiss produces greater muzzle velocities than Goex grain for grain. In certain instances such as full power hunting loads you can't stuff enough Goex down the barrel to come within 150-200 fps of Swiss. Just for general info I'll list some chronograph-ed loads from a few of my rifles.
Renegade .54 :
100gr. Swiss 2F, .530" ball, .018" pillow ticking = 1756 fps
120gr. Goex 2F, ( "same as above" ) = 1527 fps
120gr. Goex 3F, ( " " ) = 1592 fps

October Country GASR .69:
180gr. Goex 2f, .680" ball, .022" denim = 1463 fps
200gr. Goex 2F, ( " " ) = 1527 fps
160gr. Swiss 1.5F ( " " ) = 1588 fps
180gr. Swiss 1.5F ( " " ) = 1680 fps

PH Whitworth:
90gr. Goex 2F, 490gr. bullet = 1250 fps
90gr. Goex 3F, 490gr. bullet = 1381 fps
90gr. Swiss 2F, 490gr. bullet = 1515 fps

 

[SDSmlf]

Swiss produces greater muzzle velocities than Goex grain for grain. In certain instances such as full power hunting loads you can't stuff enough Goex down the barrel to come within 150-200 fps of Swiss. Just for general info I'll list some chronograph-ed loads from a few of my rifles.
Renegade .54 :
100gr. Swiss 2F, .530" ball, .018" pillow ticking = 1756 fps
120gr. Goex 2F, ( "same as above" ) = 1527 fps
120gr. Goex 3F, ( " " ) = 1592 fps

October Country GASR .69:
180gr. Goex 2f, .680" ball, .022" denim = 1463 fps
200gr. Goex 2F, ( " " ) = 1527 fps
160gr. Swiss 1.5F ( " " ) = 1588 fps
180gr. Swiss 1.5F ( " " ) = 1680 fps

PH Whitworth:
90gr. Goex 2F, 490gr. bullet = 1250 fps
90gr. Goex 3F, 490gr. bullet = 1381 fps
90gr. Swiss 2F, 490gr. bullet = 1515 fps

Now you are contrasting data vs opinion. Dangerous territory.