Swiss Powder vrs Goex

[rodwha]

For me it comes down to the performance from my handguns. There’s only a few that can provide the performance necessary and that’s what my others will be fed as I don’t want to have to keep half a dozen powders on hand.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Swiss produces greater muzzle velocities than Goex grain for grain. In certain instances such as full power hunting loads you can't stuff enough Goex down the barrel to come within 150-200 fps of Swiss.

Now you are contrasting data vs opinion. Dangerous territory.

Since he was replying to my post, pray tell....you think my quoting prices from the actual website is "opinion"?

"Full Power" hunting loads is also opinion....who's to say what "full power" is? AH perhaps he is speaking of "maximum pressure" loads when hunting.

Well my data from actual application in the field, (admittedly a small sample compared to all the deer shot with black powder this past season) shows that 70-80 grains of GOEX 3Fg launching a .530 patched roundball from a 38" barrel (nowhere near maximum pressure) is full of power...., at least the deer down and the venison in my freezer seems to indicate such.

And because of that my conclusion is there is no need for my needs to spend an extra $8 per pound of powder, simply to be "faster".

LD

 

[SDSmlf]

Since he was replying to my post, pray tell....you think my quoting prices from the actual website is "opinion"?

"Full Power" hunting loads is also opinion....who's to say what "full power" is? AH perhaps he is speaking of "maximum pressure" loads when hunting.

Well my data from actual application in the field, (admittedly a small sample compared to all the deer shot with black powder this past season) shows that 70-80 grains of GOEX 3Fg launching a .530 patched roundball from a 38" barrel (nowhere near maximum pressure) is full of power...., at least the deer down and the venison in my freezer seems to indicate such.

And because of that my conclusion is there is no need for my needs to spend an extra $8 per pound of powder, simply to be "faster".

LD

Mine was a tongue in cheek reply...... And to be honest, an 8¢ to 10¢ price premium per shot isn’t much to pay for improved target accuracy and potentially more velocity in certain hunting conditions, at least in my opinion.

And your ‘conclusion is there is no need for my needs to spend an extra $8 per pound of powder’ statement is interesting. You live in, and I assume hunt in Maryland, where all you need to legally hunt deer is a 40 caliber muzzleloader with a minimum powder charge of 60 grains, yet shoot a .530 roundball over 70-80 grains of Goex fff? You are leaving a lot of money on the table. Going to .395 patched ball would reduce your lead cost (nearly 60% less lead required per round ball) and you could be saving 10-20 grains of powder with each shot. And still fill your freezer.

Trying to help you save more than the $8 a pound of powder you are already banking with a little unrequested opinion and data.......




but really just pushing buttons in jest.

 

[Herb]

Here is my copy of the Bridger Hawken before I finished staining and wearing the finish, plus my .54 Hawken and a .58 fullstock flint I built. I tested these powders in these rifles. The target was shot with the .58 from bench at 50 yards. I used my 100 grain (weight corrected measure) Goex 2F measure (top left) to meter Swiss 1 1/2F, and those charges weighed 117 grains. That is one reason why Swiss powder is "hotter". Swiss 2F and 3F do not weigh that much more. (You can left-click this picture to call up imgbb and see the original enlarged). The black can at right is the first Olde Eynsford sold at Fort Bridger Rendezvous, which I bought in September, 2012, 1 1/2F. This is wonderful powder, as is OE 2F, but I have had poor results with OE 3F.

 

[hanshi]

I've never used Swiss before nor have I used OE. I only have a couple of loads to compare with the velocities posted previously. With a 33" barrel my .54 chronographed 1717 fps with 110 grains of Goex 3F. The extreme spread of this load was only 18 fps. With 60 grains of Goex 3F velocity was around 1300 fps. Different barrels can give great differences in velocities even with the same charge.

 

[Herb]

Lest you think Olde Eynsford powders are not wonderful (at least 2F and 1 1/2F), here are those powders shot with 100 grains of weight-corrected measured charges from my Bridger Hawken at 100 yards from bench, doing some string cutting.

 

[Herb]

View attachment 23305 Lest you think Olde Eynsford powders are not wonderful (at least 2F and 1 1/2F), here are those powders shot with 100 grains of weight-corrected measured charges from my Bridger Hawken at 100 yards from bench, doing some string cutting.

I tried to upload a closeup photo of the targets with velocities on them, but keep getting a flag that says "The uploaded file is too large for the server to process". But it is the same size as the one that did load. The top target was shot with 100 grains (weight-corrected measure) of OE 1 1/2F and .530 cast balls, and averaged 1744 fps with a spread of 56 fps. The bottom target was 100 grains of OE 2F, ditto, and averaged 1773 fps with a 42 fps spread. There is not much difference in OE 2F and OE 1 1/2F. Wonderful powders.

 

[Zonie]

Herb
Follow this link and read thru the second post I made in it. It sounds like the size of your pictures are bigger than the forum can handle.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/posting-a-picture-on-the-forum.115183/

It's pretty common for the latest digital cameras to make files over 5 million bits in size.
Reducing the physical size of your pictures by changing the width from whatever it is to 900 or 1000 can reduce the file size down to a few hundred thousand bits. Reducing the "resolution" from its current setting to something like 100 reduces the file size even more.

 

[Herb]

Lets see if this one loa

ds- 1.72 MB

 

[Loyalist Dave]

And your ‘conclusion is there is no need for my needs to spend an extra $8 per pound of powder’ statement is interesting. You live in, and I assume hunt in Maryland, where all you need to legally hunt deer is a 40 caliber muzzleloader with a minimum powder charge of 60 grains, yet shoot a .530 roundball over 70-80 grains of Goex fff? You are leaving a lot of money on the table. Going to .395 patched ball would reduce your lead cost (nearly 60% less lead required per round ball) and you could be saving 10-20 grains of powder with each shot. And still fill your freezer

AH but you are assuming that ALL of my needs regarding my fintlock rifles are fully contained in hunting, and thus I could contain myself to my .40

You will note in a previous thread in my mentioning of 5 Battle events, where a pound is burned per event, and using Graf's (cheaper than GOEX; way cheaper than Swiss). AND a .40 is not a proper caliber for my eras of choice.

LD

 

[bldtrailer]

I shoot swiss because it groups the best in my guns and doesn't leave a crud ring like goex (less whipping 10 or more shots=cleaner for me) shoot what you like it's still a free country

 

[bldtrailer]

the above was swiss 3 f this is swiss 2f Nate McKenzie getz .50 44inn swamped

 

[Crow-Feather]

Granted these are another fellows results from 8” barreled NMAs using a 30 grn volume, but Swiss gave an average of 920 FPS with a standard deviation of 11.3 FPS whereas OE gave an average of 906 FPS and 14.4 deviation. There’s not been much more side by side equal comparisons I’ve seen available.

Everybody talks about a fouling ring. I used to struggle with fouling rings, to the point that I couldn't get the PRB down the bore. Then I discovered Moose Milk. Moose milk is different for most shooters. Mine is 7 parts water to I part Balistol with a dash of liquid soap. Balistol is good for leather, wood and metal. And my bore is as clean with the last shot as it was with the first. I recently read that some people soak their patches with Moose Milk, then let the patches dry before they use them. Winter is stopping my experiments with this but I do need to give it a try. I never use oil in my rifle's bore. I have never had one rust using T/C's bore butter. It's also good for wiping down the stock before putting the weapon away. Nuff said

 

[rodwha]

Everybody talks about a fouling ring. I used to struggle with fouling rings, to the point that I couldn't get the PRB down the bore. Then I discovered Moose Milk. Moose milk is different for most shooters. Mine is 7 parts water to I part Balistol with a dash of liquid soap. Balistol is good for leather, wood and metal. And my bore is as clean with the last shot as it was with the first. I recently read that some people soak their patches with Moose Milk, then let the patches dry before they use them. Winter is stopping my experiments with this but I do need to give it a try. I never use oil in my rifle's bore. I have never had one rust using T/C's bore butter. It's also good for wiping down the stock before putting the weapon away. Nuff said

This (without soap) is what I’m planning on trying as a patch lube next.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Basically I use the 7 parts water to 1 part water soluble oil. My oil is the old NAPA formula from the earliest Dutch Schoultz Black Powder Accuracy papers. Now Balistol is the oil of choice. You end up with a nice milky colored liquid. Some call the Water soluble oils and water Moose Milk. Others call a mix of equal parts of Murphy's Oil Soap, Rubbing Alcohol and Hydrogen Peroxide, Moose Milk or MAP. MAP is an aggressive cleaner that can work as a patch lubricant. If spit works fine, then so can MAP. I like to use the WSO and water to dampen my patch.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

View attachment 23305 Lest you think Olde Eynsford powders are not wonderful (at least 2F and 1 1/2F), here are those powders shot with 100 grains of weight-corrected measured charges from my Bridger Hawken at 100 yards from bench, doing some string cutting.

Very nice Hawkins gun, Herb. I like the character marks on it, gives it soul.

 

[Crow-Feather]

Basically I use the 7 parts water to 1 part water soluble oil. My oil is the old NAPA formula from the earliest Dutch Schoultz Black Powder Accuracy papers. Now Balistol is the oil of choice. You end up with a nice milky colored liquid. Some call the Water soluble oils and water Moose Milk. Others call a mix of equal parts of Murphy's Oil Soap, Rubbing Alcohol and Hydrogen Peroxide, Moose Milk or MAP. MAP is an aggressive cleaner that can work as a patch lubricant. If spit works fine, then so can MAP. I like to use the WSO and water to dampen my patch.

I used to use that for over twenty years. My WSO source dried up and I couldn't find any WSO that wasn't dangerous to eyes or stomachs. So I went to Balistol. Easy to find.