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SXS field safety?

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Much as I don't like to admit that there is something about safety and gun handling that I don't know....I have a serious question.
I have a recently purchased Navy Arms 12 ga. SXS. It's all patterned and ready to go. It is my intention to hunt with it this season and with my also new .62 cal TVM Fowler.
How does one deal with cocking the twin hammers while upland hunting? With a hammerless SXS, I wait for the flush and as I mount the gun, I push the safety to "fire". OK. With a ML SXS, I can get one hammer back as I raise the gun but not the other (or can I?). What if I need that other barrel on an escaping grouse?
What do y'all do? How do you handle this so that you are not walking around on rough ground with a fully cocked gun and no safety?
Pete
 
Definitely don't hunt with both hammers on full cock! I'm left handed, so I always cocked the left hammer as I raised the gun, then cocked the right hammer as I was bringing the gun back down into line after firing the first. I experimented with cocking them both at once using the flat of my hand as I raised the gun, but wasn't good enough to be consistent before I gave up and went back to single cocking. Single cocking became almost as fast anyway.

Another safety issue you don't address: What to do if you only fire one barrel, especially multiple times. I removed the cap from the unfired barrel, then used the ramrod to first reseat that load before going on to load the barrel I had fired. Especially with repeated loadings and heavier loads, it's not unusual for the shot charge to start creaping forward.
 
I am also left handed, and I only cock one hammer at a time. It takes far less than a second after the first shot is fired to reach up and over to cock the second hammer, and move my trigger finger to the second trigger to fire it. In that time, I am looking at another bird, or tracking the bird I missed. You are not shooting a Semi=Auto shotgun, nor a modern cartridge double barrel gun where you can fire off two quick shots with a couple of wiggles of your trigger finger. My experience and observation is that most shooters who want to shoot that fast don't hit anything with the second shot, either. I have only seen two birds taken by shooters who fired that fast, and they both admitted it was luck.

BP hunting is a deliberative shooting sport. Take your time. You may be forgetting that you have a tremendous cloud of smoke out in front of your gun when you fire that first shot, and it will obscure the bird you fired at, as well as other birds that may be in the air. With any kind of breeze, the smoke clears away from your vision fairly quickly, but I have missed opportunities on more than one bird that got up on the report of my first barrel, and flew DOWNWIND, so that my smoke did not clear before the bird was way out of range. It happens. Its why its called " hunting " and not " getting " . No?
 
Thank you both. Your replies reinforce what I thought might be the correct approach. Goofy as It may sound, I had not considered the cloud of smoke as a mitigating factor to a second shot - I never think about it at the range. So....deliberative it is.
I had not forgotten about repacking the unfired barrel, though it is nice to be reminded.
Pete
 
:hmm: I also hunt often, occasionally shoot Sporting Clays, with a SxS 10 ga. It does not pay to get in a hurry, that's when accidents can happen. Particularly when reloading it is easy to get distracted and end up over a capped barrel, double loaded, or whatever other combination. These mishaps have happened in the past, even when one may have had a "loader". The loaders were at particular risk of "cook-offs, losing fingers and faces.
I recommend uncapping the unfired barrel and using that barrel to hold the ramrod while charging the fired barrel, starting wads, pouring shot. Then when reloaded check both barrels for having the shot fully seated. Then recap both barrels, place the hammers at half cock.
A good part of the pleasure of hunting is spending the whole day in the woods, I don't like to rush any part of it. And "Smoke" does get in your eyes, second shots are rarely better than the first on fleeing grouse or quail. At our local club range the Sporting Clay guys really work up a sweat hurrying to the next station, and most other shooting venues seem to be a shoot as fast as you can situation, I wonder WHY? :v
 
With regular use, you will get used to cocking the gun on the flush. I have been become very familiar with my SxS's and it becomes as difficult as shifting a standard shift car. Most of my shotgun hunting though, is chasing after doves. I have taken doubles MANY times hunting them.
 
It is probably why pointers were bred to allow the hunters to make a good ready. I will cock both hammers if the terrain allows it but the moment a slight obstacle or folage gets in the way then I lower them. My spaniels nose is good and generally her behavior dictates that something is about to happen etc :thumbsup:
 
The short answer to your question as to Why shooters seem to want to hurry from one station to the next, is that the great shooters know that the fast rhythm will cause insecure and inexperienced shooters to hurry their shots, and miss targets. Hurry a squad is the way to win. Simple.

My late friend, Bruce Shurts, was taught how to shoot Trap targets before they got above shoulder height off the ground. He was hitting clays less than 12 yards in front of the traphouse, and that was on his slow days! He once fired a Registered Trap match in Indiana into a strong headwind, and the broken chips of clay target started peppering the Trap boys in the house. Years later, I was with him when one of those trapboys, now a grown man and accomplished shooter, stopped us and introduced himself to Bruce. He reminded Bruce of the incident, and told us how when the round was over he put up the red flag, and went to the scorekeeper to find out who the shooter was that was bombing him in the traphouse with the chips. Bruce was pointed out to him, but because they had more shooters to fire the next round, he had to return to the Traphouse for the rest of the afternoon, and missed being to talk to Bruce then. He said that in all the years he worked as a Trapboy, Bruce was the only shooter who could break targets so close that the chips would bomb him in the traphouse. Then he shook Bruce's hand, and asked him how he learned to shoot targets so fast. The man who coached had won the American Grand Champion title something like 5 or 6 times in his lifetime, and took a liking to Bruce when he first met him at the trapranges. His name was Henry Austin, and if you look in the scorebooks published by the ATA, you will find Henry's name listed in the last 1940s, and early 1950s and the Grand Champion. I know how he did it, but I never put in the hours of practice to learn to do it myself. In Fact, because I could not do that, I would be only man on the squad who refused to be hurried when it came to calling my target and shooting it when we shot 16 yard targets. He usually hit more targets than I did, but I always shot my average or better. The other guys fell apart trying unconsciously to keep up with his fast shooting. Hint: He was slapping his trigger while the target was still rising UNDER his barrel. Like ever Trap shooter, he read the trap machine, and would hold his barrel off the expected path of the clay bird so that he could see it come out of the traphouse. All he had to do was move his barrel laterally and slap the trigger to break the bird. Its a useful skill to have if you are hunting in heavy winds, or shooting a registered trap match in heavy winds. Hitting them that low to the ground breaks the target before the winds go to work on the clay birds, and make them bounce, or turn and go straight up like a rocket.

But I am sincere when I suggest to you that BP shotgun shooting should be a delirative sport, so that you can relax, and enjoy being there. This sport is not for every shooter, nor for all of us all the time. Sometimes I like to make a lot of noise, and break as many targets as I can in a short time. That is when I take out a modern butt stuffer and shoot sporting clays on a 5 stand range. 14 traps, birds flying every direction, 5 shooters blasting away. It just doesn't get much more exciting than this with your clothes on. :thumbsup:
 
If you read much on bird hunting in the 18th & 19th centuries you will notice that it was common to carry the gun at full cock. Of course accidents also were common. I hunted with a hammer double 12 gauge breechloader starting at 12 years of age. That was after a couple of years with singleshots. I think I may once have fired the left barrel and often wondered why I was carrying it. A single would have been much lighter and would have served my needs just as well. You're quite right in saying that the first barrel almost cocks itself as the gun is mounted, but to then cock the other with the gun at the shoulder is very awkward. The only time I had the opportunity to fire the left barrel was on a pheasant I had knocked down and which ran, as they are want to do. In most of the bird hunting I have done it is "shoot now or forever hold your fire". In such situations I think of the ML double as a singleshot with a spare. If you need to finish a wounded and running bird or if another bird flushes at the sound of your first shot, then you can make use of the other barrel. Also, if you are in a blind and see birds coming in, you will have time to cock both barrels before they are in range. But if your first shot is a miss I doubt you will have time for a second. Really, I don't feel much handicapped with a singleshot gun.
 
"I had not considered the cloud of smoke as a mitigating factor to a second shot"

Ha!!!!!

I'd forgotten all about that. But picture white snowshoe hares on white snow in front of beagles. That second barrel was kinda pointless unless a hare was running across in front of me so the swing and movement left the white cloud behind. Thanks for the memory!
 
I had a Navy Arms SxS .12ga caplock for a couple years right before switching to Flintlocks then didn't use it any more, never really liked it and eventually sold it.

Biggest reason I never liked it?

Could NEVER get comfortable reloading one barrel in spite of always uncapping the off barrel...just never liked the idea of another loaded barrel right there.

Completely comfortable using my single barrel .62cal Flint smoothbore and I just don't worry about not being able to shoot doubles.
 
I do not own a BP shotgun but I upland hunt with a modern 12ga. SxS Hammer gun. Whether it's a BP gun or modern hammer gun, the two hammers and triggers can take some getting used to.
My hounds usually give me enough time to cock both hammers,when they don't, I can get a shot off with the right hammer. As others said, it only takes a second to cock the other hammer. It's just a matter of "finding" it. Same goes with triggers.If I have to fire a second shot, I just slide my finger back. Again, it's a matter of knowing where to "find" your triggers. A lot of that comes from becoming familiar with your shotgun.
 
I am far from the most experienced gunner here, but I'd like to present the techniques I've evolved for my muzzle-loading double.

The only hammer double gun I have at present is my 7+lb 16ga flinter, with the cocks too wide & high to thumb back from an unshifted grip, or to thumb both at once comfortably and safely. In the hunt, naturally, it's carried with both locks primed and at half-cock.

If I'm anticipating a bird (or bunny), I carry it at port arms with the top of the gun towards me, with my right hand opened a bit and my thumb resting on the frizzen of the barrel I intend to shoot first, then slide the thumb back to the cock and bring it to full cock as I mount. If I have a second shot, I have to partially dismount to reach the other cock. My normal carry is at port arms with the top of the gun towards me, but without my thumb up, because it it is less awkward and tiring. If I anticipate getting two shots (e.g. at ducks), I use a rather different carry, rather like that used by Sharpe's riflemen, at least in the TV series. Either at a high port or at a low-gun ready (if it is safe to do so), the weight of the gun is supported in my left hand, and my right hand is up, ready to pull the cocks back with my little finger hooked on the right cock and my middle finger, or occasionally forefinger, hooked on the left one. This is surprisingly quick to mount from, but is rather tiring and awkward to maintain for long, and not as safe if I'm walking.

For reference, with my hammerless cartridge double, my normal carry if I'm anticipating birds is the same port-arms as above, but with my thumb on the safety. Sometimes it's a low-gun ready with thumb on the safety. If I want belt-and-suspenders" safety and there are no partners to my left or dogs around, I'll carry it at a low-gun ready but opened - closing as I mount adds surprisingly little time for me. I do not normally dismount between shots. And, obviously, I'm right handed.

Joel
 
You might consider reversing the order you cock and fire your barrels.

I cock the front trigger first, which fires my right barrel, even though I am left handed. That leaves the second hammer closer to my thumb, and its easier to simply move my hand back on the wrist to pull my trigger finger back to the rear trigger.

In cocking the oppostite hammer first, it does take a reach across, and a bit more time, but I find that I have the time to do that when I see the dog getting birdy, when I don't always have it after that first shot. Since reaching over is such an unnatural movement, I do it first to get past it. Cocking the left hammer with my left thumb is just a repeat function I have performed hundreds of times with my other guns.

Just something to think about. You tend to shoot better when you plan movements to move towards your strengths, rather than against them.
 
Pete,

I've had the pleasure of using a friend's SxS 10 gauge M/L this year. I spent some time at the range with it and hunted turkeys. But while hunting doves I realized that I needed to keep things simple. I shot both barrels before reloading. Didn't want to have to take the other cap off to reload.

Another thing I learned was to load with the hammers at half-cock rather than cocked. It was a bit confusing trying to pull the correct trigger for the hammer that I was letting down. I suffered an AD while doing this. :shocked2:

As far as cocking the gun, I would cock the right hammer first (I'm right handed) then shoot. Then I'd cock the left barrel and shoot it. This is probably slower than cocking both barrels before bringing the gun up to shoot but M/Loading is slower anyway.

Experience will help ya decide what works for you. Have fun. GW
 
Thanks, Paul. I do use it when I'm walking (as opposed to still or in a blind) and think I may get/need a second shot, but it's sufficiently different from my my routine with my hammerless double that I have to consciously think to do it.

Naturally, as with my modern gun, I also use it when I'm using different loads in the barrels, and think I might want the left-barrel load first/only. I sometimes load 1 or 1.1.8oz#6 over 2.1/4dr in the right and 1.1/4oz#5 over the same powder charge (classic 1/3 more shot load) in the left for longer shots an/or bigger game, or similarly with 1oz#7.5 and 1.1/8 or 1.1/4oz#6.

I have heard that many original flint doubles were configured with the front trigger firing the left barrel, to aid the dexterous majority in getting off a quicker second shot.

Joel
 
If you decide to shoot with both hammers cocked at once, take this lesson from my years of shooting large caliber double rifles and double-trigger SxS cartridge shotguns:

Pull the rear trigger first. If recoil, cold fingers, gloves or hands slick with rain cause your finger to come off the trigger during recoil, you won't end up pulling the second trigger, too. Pull both triggers, even with a light load in a 12 gauge, and it will force the rear trigger habit in a hurry! Looks cool in movies, but you don't want to pull both triggers at once on any gun.
 
An additional safety note. If you only fire one barrel and then reload it before your next shot make sure you re-seat the other barrel before you finish your loading sequence. :hmm: The recoil of the first shot will loosen the load in the other barrel and if you don't shoot it immediately and you reload the 1st barrel and shoot it again the load in the second barrel will be further loosened. It is easy to forget the load in the second barrel while reloading the 1st and going back to hunting. This loose load in your 2nd barrel if not re-seated could cause severe problems. :surrender:
 
In a duck blind I can cock both hammers with my thumb, it's a long thumb.

The reseating the charge thing makes sense. I've had all the shot roll out of the barrel on me before, but what about firing both barrels in rapid succession. Will the second barrel's load be loose and potentially cause a bad situation?
 
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