sxs twelve guage?

[jim gray]

I've been considering a double barrel percussion shotgun for a while, my first choice would be a flinter, but my budget says no way. Anyway a good friend called me tonight, and became an even better friend, when he told me that he wanted to sell his double barrel caplock 12 gauge for $185 which is what he paid for it when he originally bought it.

I don't know who made it, but at that price and considering that I've been seeing pictures and tails from numerous turkeys that have fallen before this particular double, I don't think I'll be able to say, "No." In fact, since he offered to throw in the notebook full of load data that he's worked up for it over the past 15 or 20 years, I can't think of any reasonable excuse to say no.

He's willing to let me shoot it before I decide whether I want it or not, but I know how the man cares for his guns and I have no doubt that it is excellent shape.

Since I have been shooting rifles and pistols for sometime now, but have no experience whatsoever with smoothbores, can anyone help me out? I need to know what accessories I should buy, and how can I determine whether or not it can safely handle a roundball load; I'm not sure if it is choked or what the choke is if it is.

 

[Rebel]

Well, i have a Navy Arms double barrel. 12 ga that has cylinder bore barrels. It shoots well with .690 rd balls. Also is a good shot shooter. If you can get the patched ball down the barrel, it will come back out. I use 95 grs of powder and 1 1/4 oz of shot most the time in it. As far as accessories, i have a leather Irish style shot flask that is adjustable for 1 oz., 1 1/8 oz, and 1 1/4 oz of shot. It makes carrying and dispensing shot easy. You will need over powder wads, fiber cushion wads, and over shot wads. You can also make paper shot cups or use plastic shot cups to improve patterns. The normal starting point is equal measures of powder and shot. I have fired more shots out of my double barrel than all my BP rifles. They are a real blast to shoot. ::

 

i will secound what rebel said. ohhh and if you dont buy it have him e-mail me I will buy it :shocking: realy ,,,, no one else here needs it ,,,,, just me

 

[jim gray]

Thanks, Rebel and Captchee,

I have always wanted a BP shotgun, but I have to admit that I have been a bit intimidated, by what seems like a lot of equipment that would be required. I thought I would have to have at least twice as much stuff as I would need for my flintlock rifles. I do however want the versatily of a double barrel smoothbore and am really anxious to get it.

One more question, if you don't mind: Is there anyway to estimate how much knockdown power a given load would have before hunting with it? I want to make sure that the load I'm shooting is going to be effective on my quarry at a reasonable range.

 

[Rebel]

Set ya up a heavy TIN can at 20 yds. If your load penetrates both sides it is heavy enough for hunting.

 

i use a 1/4 inch thick peice of ply to pattern my loads at 20 and 30 yards . i fugure if i get 60 to 80 % complete penitration then she will kill most anything at that range

 

[Rebel]

I took my advice out of the back of the Dixie catalog in the info section. But no reason plywood wouldn't work too.

 

[jim gray]

Thanks guys both ideas sound good to me and I do appreciate the information very much. I guess I was just too lazy to pull out the DGW catalog. Oh well, it is far more interesting to pose these questions on the forum, anyway. Again thanks a lot.

 

[[email protected]]

Flash....I read somewhere that a BP scattergun is almost identical in power to a " modern" shotgun .
I also read that with 80 to 90 gr. powder $ 1 1/2 oz shot you can expect arount 1100 fps....plenty of POWER.
GET that gun...great price.....you will have a BLAST !

*** WV SCROUNGER ***

 

[jim gray]

WV scrounger,

I have no doubt about that. I got paid today, and tomorrow after myfriend gets off work, I'm heading to his house. I'll only give him part of the money though, and take him up on his offer to try it before I buy it. Maybe I can get a few shots out with someone else doing the cleaning. :hmm: I wonder how many weekends he'll let me test it.

Thanks for the load info.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I'm a bit surprised by all these qustions about shotgun loads. Loading data is printed on every box of shotshells! Where it says "dram equivalent" that means it is loaded with smokeless powder to produce a velocity equivalent to that many drams of blackpowder. So when loading black, just forget the "equivalent" and load that many drams of black. :m2c:

 

[jim gray]

My concern would be that those loads are designed to give adequate performance in all manner of guns, actions, and chokes. They are not tailored to the requirements of one individual gun. I was looking at load developement in the shotgun the same way I do in my rifles. In that case my idea is to start with a moderate load that I know has worked in other guns and then start tweaking until I find what works best for me and my gun. I think a shotgun will give me a lot more variables to adjust.

I want to come as close as possible to duplicating the performance that these far more experienced shooters are getting and not necessarily using the exact same loads.

 

[[email protected]]

Yep...thats right.....but only if ya know that a DRAM equals 28 grains. If ya dont what a DRAM is how do ya load worth a dram???

*** WV SCROUNGER ***

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I guess I misunderstood the question. I thought at some point you asked how you could know if you were getting adequate power so I sugested you might try standard loads. I didn't know you were already past that and into "refinement". It sounds like you are in for a lot of time at the patterning board, lots of pellet counting and tiny little hole counting. You will no doubt find that less powder and more shot will tighten patterns (ought to) but then you may have reduced penetration. So you move up to a larger shot size to get penetration but now you have fewer pellets so your pattern is too thin again. Then when you find that perfect load it may not be perfect in both barrels and there is a very good chance the two barrels will not shoot to the same point of aim. You're right, you do have a lot of variables. That's why I just follow the late V.M. Starr's advice and call it good enough. HAVE FUN!! :haha: :haha:

 

[jim gray]

Thanks again, it looks like you just gave me an excuse to spend a lot of time at the range in the near future, and of course I'll have to double check and refine my loads when the season gets closer. Oh well, I guess ya gotta do what ya gotta do. :thumbsup:

After I find fine shot load I can live with, I'm gonna have to play round with PRBs and buckshot, too, separately that is, at least at first. ::

Do you find that the same basic loads work with various shot sizes as well, or would going from 7 1/2 to 4 shot require working up another load from scratch?

 

[Rebel]

Different sizes of shot will normally pattern different. Only way to know is to try them and see.

 

[Huntinfool]

"Oh well, I guess ya gotta do what ya gotta do. :thumbsup: "

IT's a tuff job but someones got to do it!! :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

YMH&OS, :redthumb:
Chuck

 

[CoyoteJoe]

No offence intended Flash, I just have to laugh because I been there and done that. You really need to shoot ten patterns for an average any time you change anything. And that's for each barrel. I spent a lot of evenings lying on the kitchen floor drawing 21" and 30" circles on butcher paper, quartering them and counting the tiny little pellet holes to figure percentages. You also have to count the pellets in your load to start with. And for all of that, I'm sure I never killed one rabbit or broke one clay that would have escaped a standard load. 2 3/4 to 3 3/4 drams of powder, two hard nitro cards, equal volume of shot topped with 1/2 of a nitro card and you just won't find anything noticable better. The main thing I learned from all the counting and calculating is that the time would have been much better spent shooting clays. Lots more room for improvement in shooting than in patterns. Now I only shoot a few patterns to check point of impact, more if needed to correct point of impact, but leave the counting to others. :m2c:

 

[jim gray]

No offense taken, the way I see it anyone who has ever worked up a load for a muzzleloading shotgun has more experience in that department than I do.

I've developed quite a few different rifle loads. You know how it is, I have a good enough load with 2Fg and a 240 grain bullet, but think I may want to try 3Fg or a patched roundball. I've never had a BP smoothbore and I know that I have a lot to learn.

I really appreciate the help that I've gotten from everyone here.

 

[musketman]

I really appreciate the help that I've gotten from everyone here.

We are fortunate enough to have many members here that are willing to share their experience with others, be them new to the sport or otherwise...