T/C 12g New Englander max safe loads

[NorthFork]

I've acquired an new old stock New Englander kit that I will be putting together. The manual included does not cover loads for the shotgun. I found through an internet search, a T/C manual that is highly 'censored'. The site wants you to pay for the info. T/C no longer offers manuals for these guns either. From what I could glean from the 1 manual online, the max load seems to be 100 grs ffg + one 1/2" fiber wad + 1 3/8 oz shot + one 1/2" fiber wad. Can someone who has a valid T/C manual double check this for me please? I would appreciate it.

I don't intend to use maximum loads in this smoothbore on a regular basis, it's just that I like to know what the manufacturer says is the stopping point for safety's sake.

 

[Woody Morgan]

12 gauge is .72 so a "square" load of 70 grains and an equal amount of shot by volume is a good starting point.

wm

 

[Historian]

12 ga load. 100 grains FFg, 1 or 2, 1/8" over powder wads, 1 1/4 inch lubed felt wad, 1 1/4 oz shot then another 1/4 inch lubed felt wad will shoot fine. I use leather over powder wads and lubed felt wads lubed with beeswax and olive oil. The above mentioned load you remarked on in the original post looks to be the right max load.

 

[THBailey]

I used one of these a fair bit before acquirng my Pedersoli's. You will find the New Englander 12ga is a light gun so felt recoil is stiffer than in a heavier gun. I used Circle Fly wads ( Cards & wads for muzzle loading shotguns - Track of the Wolf ), 12ga overpowder card, 12ga cushion wad, and then an 11ga overshot. Just FYI here is some data from a Cabelas manual and some from a Blackpowder Shooting book:

 

[megasupermagnum]

Personally from what I've seen of them, I'd have no problem shooting up to 1 5/8 oz loads, maybe 120 grains of powder. Realistically the only reason you would want to go that heavy on shot would be turkey, and you'd be better off around 100 gr or less powder at that point. 1 3/8 oz is a pretty standard 12 gauge load, and is about what a round ball weighs.

 

[MountainSmoke]

Here ya go

 

[MountainSmoke]

I spent a bunch of time on load development for my New Englander and for me personally I got better patterns by ditching the cushion wads and just using thin cards and one thick nitro card. My winning load for small game is as follows. 80 grains of 2f ( or 70 grains of 3f) 1 1/4 ounce # 5 shot, one thick nitro over powder card then 2 thin over shot cards. Yours may like something different but finding out is half the fun. Good luck

 

[excess650]

I used "square loads" in my NE. (2) 10ga Wonder Wads over the powder, paper shotcup, shot, and over shot card. These made nice patterns without donut holes, 3 drams and up.

 

[NorthFork]

@MountainSmoke nailed it!

Thanks to all who replied. After an exhaustive search online I found a manual I can download and print off. Not sure of the date of the manual but it does specifically reference the New Englander with both the fixed cylinder choke and the screw in choke tube model. All loads I will list are lead only (steel loads are listed separately in the manual). T/C lists the all loads as powder + wad + shot + wad. The wads are either fiber wads of T/C Natural Wads.

70grs plus 1oz by volume shot
80grs plus 1 1/8oz by volume shot
90grs plus 1 1/4oz by volume shot
Max load is 100grs plus 1 3/8oz by volume shot

When I get it printed off I will post pics of the pages wit lead AND steel shot. Hopefully this will be helpful to all.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I shoot 82 gr FFg (3 drams) of FFg and 1-1/2 oz of shot in my New Eglander. A little more shot than powder comparing equal volumes.

They are great little shotguns and should have been more popular than they were. Mine is an early kit and was cylinder bored - but I had Coyote Joe jug choke it to a light modified.

 

[NorthFork]

@Stumpkiller

It's my understanding there are 2 variations of the New Englander. 1 has the tang secured with 2 wood screws. The newer version has 1 wood screw and 1 bolt that secures the tang to the trigger guard. My kit is the one that had 2 wood screws. It's also my understanding that this version is susceptible to cracking the stock under recoil. If this true, is it of value to bed the tang with epoxy to try to prevent stock cracking? I know this is not 'traditional' but neither is the New Englander. Any insight to this?

 

[recurvebill]

While we are on the subject of New Englander , i am using Musket Cap Ignition on my .45 & .50 rifles and my .56 smoothbore . Am now considering using the same on my 12 ga. N.E. . Question is , will using the hotter Musket Cap possibly cause over-pressure condition ??? Thoughts , anyone ?

 

[Grenadier1758]

In my personal opinion, @recurvebill, I would not use the musket caps unless there is absolutely no source for #11 caps. The magnum caps should be powerful enough to set off the charge especially if you are using the nipples designed to direct more flame into the flash channel. Look for Hot Shot, Spitfire, or Red Hot nipples. I don't think you will have an over pressure situation with the Musket caps, but why spend the extra money for musket caps when the #11's work. I don't think the CCI Musket caps are any hotter than a standard #11. What caps are you using? At my club the only members using musket caps are shooting muskets. Some use the magnum caps on rifles with a long flash channel from the nipple seat to powder chamber.

Have you had problems setting off your powder charge with #11 caps?

 

[recurvebill]

In my personal opinion, @recurvebill, I would not use the musket caps unless there is absolutely no source for #11 caps. The magnum caps should be powerful enough to set off the charge especially if you are using the nipples designed to direct more flame into the flash channel. Look for Hot Shot, Spitfire, or Red Hot nipples. I don't think you will have an over pressure situation with the Musket caps, but why spend the extra money for musket caps when the #11's work. I don't think the CCI Musket caps are any hotter than a standard #11. What caps are you using? At my club the only members using musket caps are shooting muskets. Some use the magnum caps on rifles with a long flash channel from the nipple seat to powder chamber.

Have you had problems setting off your powder charge with #11 caps?

Grenadier 1758 , thanks for the info !! As regards #11 caps , no , i have not had an issue with them that did not turn out to be my own shortcoming . Somewhere , sometime , i got the notion that i did not want to hear "snap, pop, silence" ! I want to hear " snap , pop , boom" when the object of my hunt is in front of me !! And RWS musket caps have never let me down . Keep your head on a swivel and your powder dry !!

 

[Britsmoothy]

While we are on the subject of New Englander , i am using Musket Cap Ignition on my .45 & .50 rifles and my .56 smoothbore . Am now considering using the same on my 12 ga. N.E. . Question is , will using the hotter Musket Cap possibly cause over-pressure condition ??? Thoughts , anyone ?

No.
Also if you are hearing "snap, pop and boom" something is wrong!

 

[Britsmoothy]

It always makes me chuckle when manufacturers print in bold and red!

DANGER DANGER catastrophe imminent!
I imagine many a user shaking uncontrollable as they set a measure to the listed MAX .

Believe it, TC ain't gonna make something come apart that easy even if the "do not exceed the listed max" is ignored!

Is there any evidence that any amount of payload loaded normally has ever caused a barrel to fail?

 

[megasupermagnum]

It always makes me chuckle when manufacturers print in bold and red!

DANGER DANGER catastrophe imminent!
I imagine many a user shaking uncontrollable as they set a measure to the listed MAX .

Believe it, TC ain't gonna make something come apart that easy even if the "do not exceed the listed max" is ignored!

Is there any evidence that any amount of payload loaded normally has ever caused a barrel to fail?

I'm sure there is, but look at how really low the pressures are. People like to compare to modern shotguns, but when a comparable blackpowder load is only doing 2,000 psi, it's hard to compare as far as safety. That's more comparable to a modern air rifle, than a modern smokeless powder shotgun. Let's say the TC new Englander blows up at a 12 gauge proof pressure of 20,000 psi, which I really doubt it would. You would have to have some kind of crazy stupid load like 4 ounces of shot and 400 grains of powder to get pressures like that. Plenty of people have shot 2 ounce of shot from a 20 gauge muzzleloader, and that's got to be getting up into that 15,000+ psi range, they still don't blow up.

 

[D.Summers]

Clearly, here is an expert!

 

[Sam squanch]

1- musket caps are the only ones available now.2- I can handle musket caps without dropping them, unlike number 10 or 11 caps!

 

[Musketeer]

I can handle musket caps without dropping them, unlike number 10 or 11 caps!

That's the main thing I like about them. It makes a big difference.