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t/c firestorm
- Thread starter padeer
- Start date
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Shoot a properly lubed patched round ball between shots. :crackup:
Sorry, couldn't resist.
I don't know nuttin 'bout sabots, but I imagine a cleaning patch moistened with Lehigh Valley Lube or one of the moose milk homebrews would keep the fouling soft and the bore clean. Saliva might not be good enough since the sabots lack any lube (as far as I know??).
Guest
What lube do sabots have? I thought sabots were plastic.
: You can try 1 or 2 or even 3 OX Yoke wads between powder and sabot'd bullet to reduce & soften fouling. It might allow subsequent shots without having to clean - THAT's the idea anyway.
: I cannot fathom HAVING to clean ro wipe between shots - I wouldn't be shooting that gun - that's for certain. What a horrible beast! Wouldn't own such a gun.
Daryl
: You can try 1 or 2 or even 3 OX Yoke wads between powder and sabot'd bullet to reduce & soften fouling. It might allow subsequent shots without having to clean - THAT's the idea anyway.
: I cannot fathom HAVING to clean ro wipe between shots - I wouldn't be shooting that gun - that's for certain. What a horrible beast! Wouldn't own such a gun.
Daryl
You shouldn't have to clean between shots. Every one I know that uses modern inlines with sabots doesn't clean but every three shots or so. How fast is the twist? Fast twist needs to be cleaned more often then the slow twist because it's a little harder to load. The tight fit of the sabots requires some pretty good pushin'
Padeer, this works with my T/C Black Diamond:
1)pre-splay the sabot petals as far out as possible by forcibly pushing sabot 'face-down' against a flat surface. This'll allow sabot to open more quickly and consistently on leaving the barrel
2)place bullet squarely in sabot and start sabot in barrel leaving bullet nose flush with muzzle. This should be easy with T/C's QL Accurizer. I put little or no lube on the sabot itself.
3)place a modest 'ring' of crisco between sides of bullet nose and inside edge of muzzle. Don't over do it, don't try to pack it, just enough to get a complete ring of the stuff all the way around. Looking down at muzzle you should see the bullet nose in the center and crisco all the way around the nose out to the barrel steel.
4)put jag on ramrod and a tight fitting dry patch on jag and seat the sabot/bullet combination on powder. This'll force the lube down the barrel with the bullet. Lube will be in front of the sabot where it won't be as readily cooked by the load.
5)Withdraw the jag and patch in one motion (resist the temptation to wipe bore multiple times)
6)Handle every subsequent shot exactly the same way--don't overdo the Crisco, don't make multiple passes with the patch, don't smear a lot of crisco on the sides of the sabot--you'll get fliers if you do
Using this approach, I've put over 20 full power loads* through my Black Diamond without need for cleaning. Loading stayed easy. Group size has been optimal, for that gun, as well. As I recall it was grouping into about 2.5" at 100yd using 100gr. RS, 300gr. .44cal. XTP, and T/C Mag Express Sabot.
*full power for me is 100gr RS. If you use more powder or pyrodex pellets, this approach will fall apart at about 12 or 15 shots; accuracy will fall off and it'll get hard to load if you don't clean.
This is unconventional as heck, but seems to work. Does just as well in the .50 System 1, T/C Hawken-Green Mountain .50 and the Black Mountain Magnum.
Bob
1)pre-splay the sabot petals as far out as possible by forcibly pushing sabot 'face-down' against a flat surface. This'll allow sabot to open more quickly and consistently on leaving the barrel
2)place bullet squarely in sabot and start sabot in barrel leaving bullet nose flush with muzzle. This should be easy with T/C's QL Accurizer. I put little or no lube on the sabot itself.
3)place a modest 'ring' of crisco between sides of bullet nose and inside edge of muzzle. Don't over do it, don't try to pack it, just enough to get a complete ring of the stuff all the way around. Looking down at muzzle you should see the bullet nose in the center and crisco all the way around the nose out to the barrel steel.
4)put jag on ramrod and a tight fitting dry patch on jag and seat the sabot/bullet combination on powder. This'll force the lube down the barrel with the bullet. Lube will be in front of the sabot where it won't be as readily cooked by the load.
5)Withdraw the jag and patch in one motion (resist the temptation to wipe bore multiple times)
6)Handle every subsequent shot exactly the same way--don't overdo the Crisco, don't make multiple passes with the patch, don't smear a lot of crisco on the sides of the sabot--you'll get fliers if you do
Using this approach, I've put over 20 full power loads* through my Black Diamond without need for cleaning. Loading stayed easy. Group size has been optimal, for that gun, as well. As I recall it was grouping into about 2.5" at 100yd using 100gr. RS, 300gr. .44cal. XTP, and T/C Mag Express Sabot.
*full power for me is 100gr RS. If you use more powder or pyrodex pellets, this approach will fall apart at about 12 or 15 shots; accuracy will fall off and it'll get hard to load if you don't clean.
This is unconventional as heck, but seems to work. Does just as well in the .50 System 1, T/C Hawken-Green Mountain .50 and the Black Mountain Magnum.
Bob
Only going by the different posts I have read, because I too was very interested in one of them at one point. The T/C Firestorm is Thompson Center's rifle with 1:48 twist but most everyone I talk to shoots Powerbelts out of them. They claim with 100 grains of powder these things are real accurate with powerbelts. I have read other posts of them shooting 240 grain T/C Mag Express XTP Sabots with 100 grains of powder very well also. I have never read a post of anyone claiming great accuracy with the roundball out of them. I am wondering if this has something to do with the debth of the rifling or something such as that.
The other rifle I was looking into and almost purchased except a difference of opinion between myself and the store got in the way, was the Tradition's PA Pellet. Again, a 1:48 twist and everyone claims loaded with the 240 grain T/C Mag Express XTP's they are very accurate. He again I was told with roundball they are not all that great. It seems to me that they are trying to get the flintlock and modern market shares all in one.
After my dispute I decided to go with a T/C Hawkins flintlock and put a Green Mountain .50 caliber 1:70 twist barrel on that. I know what will shoot out of that...
As for cleaning the bore, I would swab between shots. I guess I am used to this and do not find it all that much of an big deal. I swab all sidelocks and flintlocks with pure isopropyl or denatured alcohol only. It will remove the fowling, and the alcohol drys very fast. A dry patch or two and the barrel is ready to shoot again. I personally am one of these people that avoid any kind of lube in the barrel. Especially when shooting sabots of any kind. I was told that if you put any lube in the barrel and shoot sabots, it causes the plastic sabot to skip some of the rifling giving it an uneven spin compared to the next one, and your accuracy will suffer. This is just my personal opinion.
The other rifle I was looking into and almost purchased except a difference of opinion between myself and the store got in the way, was the Tradition's PA Pellet. Again, a 1:48 twist and everyone claims loaded with the 240 grain T/C Mag Express XTP's they are very accurate. He again I was told with roundball they are not all that great. It seems to me that they are trying to get the flintlock and modern market shares all in one.
After my dispute I decided to go with a T/C Hawkins flintlock and put a Green Mountain .50 caliber 1:70 twist barrel on that. I know what will shoot out of that...
As for cleaning the bore, I would swab between shots. I guess I am used to this and do not find it all that much of an big deal. I swab all sidelocks and flintlocks with pure isopropyl or denatured alcohol only. It will remove the fowling, and the alcohol drys very fast. A dry patch or two and the barrel is ready to shoot again. I personally am one of these people that avoid any kind of lube in the barrel. Especially when shooting sabots of any kind. I was told that if you put any lube in the barrel and shoot sabots, it causes the plastic sabot to skip some of the rifling giving it an uneven spin compared to the next one, and your accuracy will suffer. This is just my personal opinion.
