t/c hawken build ????

[mdbrown]

if i do go ahead with the "johnny Cash " build would the tc be what i should base it on? or maybe you could come up with better ideas. thanks for the info so far. Larry

 

[tg]

I would opt for a parts set for a true Hawken or other half stock of the mid 1830's-1840's and have a gun with top notch parts, accuracy, and a lot of historical validity in appearance as well, just where I would take such a project.

 

[don hepler]

That is one sharp rifle. I didn't think a Renegade could look so good. Nice job! ebiggs posted a nice rifle too.

 

[don hepler]

I think it's a good idea. I'd like to see more projects like this posted.

 

[jethro224]

if i do go ahead with the "johnny Cash " build would the tc be what i should base it on? or maybe you could come up with better ideas. thanks for the info so far. Larry

If you are going to base it on a factory production gun the T/C would be your best bet. Good quality parts, good availability, reasonable prices.

As far as "better ideas" go it all would depend on what you want to end up with. Look around at the Track of the Wolf website or wherever and see what your options are.

I would recommend that you do a little looking around first and decide exactly what you want your rifle to be, do, and look like. Then buy the parts to build that rifle. If you start with a T/C and then change everything on it it won't be a T/C any more, it will just be a custom built rifle that was limited to parts that will fit on a T/C. And you'll have a pile of parts leftover that you could use to build a stock T/C if you just had the screws.

If you don't already have a rifle then go ahead and buy the T/C (or whatever other rifle strikes your fancy) so you have something fun to shoot while you collect the parts to build whatever kind of rifle you want when it is all said and done. You then won't have to limit yourself to parts that will fit a factory gun.

:2

 

[longrifle346]

I went the parts route because I wanted to shoot and couldn't shell out the big bucks for a nice custom/semi-custom initially. I started out with a basic Renegade with a bad bore that I bought for $40. The barrel was useless due to someone putting a modern scope on it and drilling down so deeply that I wondered why powder didn't leak out when I loaded! But the hardware and stock were in great shape. In the past two years I've added a factory 54 barrel...then a 56 smoothie...then a 62 Green Mountain smoothie...then a nice factory 50....then a 1" Hawken precarve...then a 1" factory Hawken stock...then a Green Mountain 58. More importantly I learned what it took to maintain each one of them and make them all shoot accurately.

I've had a blast, literally, working with the parts and different calibers learning what it takes to make them accurate. If I'd gone the custom route from the get-go I don't believe I'd of had near the same experience and enjoyment. I certainly wouldn't have the best idea back then of what I really wanted in a custom rifle...and I wouldn't have ended up with that crew of purely accurate shooters. I've pared the list of barrels down somewhat but I can still go to my rack right now and put together a stock and barrel combo to hunt most any way and anything I'd ever want to hunt.

 

[mdbrown]

what i would like to end up with is an elk special

28-30 inch barrel
54 maybe 58 cal
half stock
fast twist
extremly acurate
$1200 or so if dont need to spend that much thats ok with me
here within a month
is this possable?
percussion

 

[Stumpkiller]

I'd start now, as barrels can have a LONG lead time if they are not in current stock. Green Mt & others may have what you want in stock.

Here within a month

If you mean, have someone else build it? Good luck. Many smiths have the stock inlet for the barrel by someone else and the mailing back and forth takes up a few weeks. Then, if you want to be put in the front of a back-order waiting line you better have a compelling tale or a wad of cash.

My current m/l was an 18 month waiting list. Even if your project is small it's routinely first in, first out.

The long wait is because smiths are so busy creating the "old" style muzzleloaders that nobody wants any more according to Gander Mt. and Cabela's. :wink:

 

[mdbrown]

i was thinking about just finding one that fits the above ideas. it doesnt have to be semi custom

 

[jethro224]

Have you looked at the classifieds section here on the forum? There are a couple .54 rifles there that might draw your interest. T/C, Lyman Great Plains, a nice looking Sharon but it is probably round ball twist...
Any of those would leave you with almost enough $ leftover for a kit to build another gun.

 

[tg]

I am curious why a fast twist would be needed with a .54 or .58 either one with ball will take Elk as far as the iron sights will allow

 

[mdbrown]

i really dont know, im relying on my very limited muzzleloader knowlege, but mostly on you guys. so please tell me what i need. i have an inline now but would like a more tradinal one. i really like the looks of the perersoli rocky mtn .54 maple. but again with my lack of knowlege i thought i would need a fast twist to increase acuracy at longer range {realativly long range that is} and use conicals. the rocky mtn .54 has 1-66 i think. am i thinking right?

 

[jethro224]

The fast twist is needed to stabilize a conical bullet, while the round ball shoots better with a slow twist.
If you really want to go traditional think about getting a rifle with the slow twist. Like TG said, patched round balls will shoot very accurately and get the job done out to as far as most people can shoot accurately with iron sights anyway. They are also more traditional and MUCH cheaper to shoot than any conical bullet available. The more you can shoot the better shot you will be and cheaper ammo leads to more shooting.
I have never hunted Elk so take my opinion for what it is worth, :2 , but I would not feel undergunned in the least with a .54 shooting a patched round ball.
Those Maple stocked Pedersoli Rocky Mtn Rifles are sure pretty to look at and those who have them seem to love them.

 

[mdbrown]

.54 cal rb good rest all conditions good {which is never in elk country} what would be the max very ethical range of that load? i know it would depend on the shooter , but i just want to know what the M/L is capable of .

 

[mdbrown]

and the same question with conicals?

 

[ebiggs1]

First off I have never shot an elk with a muzzle loader so take it for what it;s worth. I have, on the other hand, shot four elk with a Remington Woodsmaster in 30/06. I have also, over the last 25 ears or so been in on numerous hunts where other hunters have taken elk. So my experience would be, you need to be a real capable hunter to make good kills with a 54 round ball. Knowing what I know about my own experience shooting this great caliber muzzle loader. And that needs to at a reasonable range, too. But I am the kind of guy that thinks archery should not be legal for elk either. I have seen too many shots gone bad, usually for the elk. An elk can run miles with an arrow stuck out it's side. If you decide do it, practice, practice and choose your shots carefully. The maxi ball style bullets probably do give you slightly better kill performance.

 

[mdbrown]

i dont agree about what you say about archery, i am a bowhunter {going to AZ next week to hunt elk with bow, this bull in az will be bull #25 for me. shot 7 with bow the rest with rifle.i drew an Idaho {home state}M/L bull tag for november. thats why i am seeking advice on the M/L .zero with M/L . i do agree about being a capable hunter. that is great advice, too bad more wouldnt take it seriously. is it reasonable to think that the 54 be concidered a 100 yard and under rifle? with round balls? or is that pushing it?

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you are going to walk up and down any of those mountains in Idaho hunting elk, consider fashioning a walking stick- either on sight, or at home- to use for support, and then practice using that stick to support your gun in field shooting positions, too. I have found it very easy- with practice- to assume a supported position using my sticks, standing, kneeling, and sitting, even on steeply angled hillsides. The practice is to let you always be thinking ahead of where you need to place the base of the stick to give you the best support for your shot.

No, you won't be making shots at running Elk with a walking stick to brace, but I hope you would not consider such a shot on Elk, with a bow, or gun.

As for range the .54 is quite capable of killing elk well past 100 yds. using a RB. However, its your ability to shoot iron sights that is in question in determining the maximum range you will fire a shot at an Elk. That may differ depending on time of day, and light conditions, NO? Personally, I would want to keep my shots at Elk using iron sights and a .54 cal. rifle shooting RBs to 75 yards or less. That is twice the range most bow hunters will be comfortable shooging at live game, and if you are as experienced at taking Elk with a Bow, you should have an advantage over others in getting close enough for a clean kill shot.

:hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[jethro224]

Personally I would not shoot at game any farther with a conical than with a round ball. I believe it's all about the shooters ability to place the shot accurately into the heart/lungs. Without a doubt the conical will penetrate deeper farther out than a round ball due to the extra mass but I don't think I could shoot accurately enough with iron sights past round ball range to need the extra penetration.
Like many others, I believe a muzzleloader should be looked at just like one would an archery shot, only with a longer range capability. Don't try to break bones and drop an animal. Try instead to make a good shot into the heart and lungs and kill the animal. A bigger bullet does not make up for a poor shot.

mdbrown, You should post this question over in the hunting section to get more views and opinions from others who have actually shot Elk with ball and bullet. While you are there you can look thru the older topics and read lots of stories of successful Elk hunts from past seasons. I believe there was a topic not long ago discussing the max range. You will get a lot of varying opinions.
Whatever you decide to hunt with, have a great hunt. :hatsoff:

 

[Rat Trapper]

I do not have a problem with elk hunting with the bow. Having taken lots of game myself with the bow. Having done some elk hunting and having worked for an outfitter to help pay for my elk hunts, I'd feel better with a conical.