T/C Hawken Rifle Changes

[bubba.50]

The T/C QLA is one of those examples of the difference between theory and practice.

In theory the relief of the QLA would allow a T/C maxi-ball to be easily loaded in the bore and perfectly centered on the lands. The QLA would let one also start a patched round ball perfectly centered on the lands.

In practice the reduced diameter bands of the maxi-ball didn't align perfectly, so the base was slightly damaged and you can guess the results. Things didn't fare too well for the patched round ball either. The lands were sharp where the patch entered the rifled bore. Guess what, patches were cut and there on many threads on this forum that point out all the problems with gas cutting will do to increase group size.

Bottom line on the QLA, it wasn't an improvement. It should reduce the value of the gun.

If you’re damagin’ the base of your bullets, you need to check your bullets and/or your loading technique.

When the QLA came along a bunch of opinionated old farts decided without even givin’ it a chance, that it would affect accuracy. And by letting this thought into their heads, it subconciously DID affect their shooting so they trashed it to anyyone who’d listen thereby creating more doubtful minds who also decided without even trying it that it was bad. The snowball effect took over from there.

 

[OldRust]

I appreciate bubba.50’s kind words but anyone who’s been around this forum long enough knows that he’s the real authority when it comes to these TC rifles regardless of model.

Thank you.

Respectfully, Cowboy

Thanks, Cowboy & Bubba That's great information on the TC Hawken's changes and timeline.

I bought one of the Hawken's in the 70's that was interchangeable from flint to percussion by swapping out the vent liner to drum and nipple , then locks. I have not run across another one since.

Thanks

 

[Bledfor Days]

The QLA sounds like the counter boring a lot of the surplus unmentionable guns had done once they had damaged crowns. I imagine if anything, it would provide protection to the end of the business end.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I appreciate the feedback that people who have the QLA don't have the problems I mentioned.

I do know the maxi-balls loaded in my pre QLA T/C Hawken have base bands that just clear the lands on my rifle. The top band covers the lands and, with a thumb push, engraves that band on the rifling. Accuracy is excellent.

I will stick to my premise that the QLA is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. It would perhaps be a solution for elongated bullets that were groove sized and would not enter a rifle with lands to the crown.

 

[yellowlab]

I have a t/c hawken without a qla and it shoots fine. I also have a .54 t/c thunderhawk 1;38 twist which I purchased new in aprox.1995. It had a qla when new. shot rb's better than I expected but would not shoot conicals well "tried every brand weight and size I could make or find" Best groups were 6-8 in at 50 yds with every 4th or 5th a flyer missing the target completely. It did a lot of safe sitting for a long time. One day while web surfing found an article/post about t/c qla's and how they were bored into the barrel after the rifling was done and sometimes didn't align correctly with the bore. People were having a gunsmith remove them for 100.00+/-.I figured the gun wasn't worth a bunch more than 100.00 and being a safe queen figured I didnt have much to lose. So out to the shop we went, a few hours later with the help of a cut off wheel a large marble and some valve grinding compound the gun is aprox. 1 in. shorter with a new crown. It now shoots conicals very well, It really likes the lee 380 real with a felt pad and 100grns. Now shoots 3 to 4 " groups at 100 yds on sandbags with peep sight which "for me" is good.

 

[Dr5x]

T/C Hawken rifles appear to have gone through a number of changes over the years, barrel wedge and lock bolt escutcheons surface mounted rather than inlet, clean out screws discontinued, sight changes, hammer configuration changes, stock shape and perhaps some others.

Are there "better than other" versions of these guns? Do early guns bring a premium? I think I've heard early guns used outsource barrels, Sharon perhaps?

Any info you folks might have would be appreciated.

I UNDERSTAND THAT SINCE THEY WERE TAKEN OVER BY A LARGELY MODERN STYLE GUN MAKER THAT ANY CALL FOR HELP THERE WILL HAVE TALKING WITH SOMEONE WHO IS AS WELL VERSED IN MUZZLELOADERS AS THE GE STREETCAR DRIVER. I WOULD LIKE OTHER OPINIONS ON THAT.
WHEN I WAS A PECULIARLY IGNORANT TC HAWKEN OWNER AND WAS GETTING HUGE GROUPS OR NON GROUPS REALLY I KNEW THERE HAD TO BE SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE BARREL. SO I PURCHASED A REPLACEMENT BARREL THAT HAPPENED TO BE A FEW INCHES LONGER FROM THE SHARON BARREL PEOPLE WHO WERE LOCATED IN UTAH OR IDAHO, LATER I DUSCOVERED THAT THE ORIGINAL BARREL PROVIDED BY THE T/C KIT I HAD PURCHASED HAD ALSO BEEN MADE BY SHARON OR THE SAME IDENTICAL RIFLE ON TWO INCHES LONGER.. THE REPLACEMENT TURNED OUT TO BE EXCELLENT AFTER I LEARNED WHAT WAS REALLY CAUSING THOSE GENEROUS SIED NOT QUITE ACTUAL GROUPS.
DUTCH

 

[ugly old guy]

@Cowboy That be a fine looking TC Hawken y'all got there.

I surely wish I could locate one a them ramrod ferrel mounted front sling swivel setups.

I had one maybe 35 or 40 years ago. Like a duRn fool idiot, I let it go with the rifle when I sold or traded it off.

 

[OldRust]

Thanks, Cowboy & Bubba That's great information on the TC Hawken's changes and timeline.

I bought one of the Hawken's in the 70's that was interchangeable from flint to percussion by swapping out the vent liner to drum and nipple , then locks. I have not run across another one since.

Thanks

Photos of my Flint / Percussion TC Hawken that I described above that I currently have set up for percussion. I still have the vent and flint lock that came with it when purchased new. I've never run across another the drum and nipple arrangement on another TC. Has anyone else ?

 

[bubba.50]

Photos of my Flint / Percussion TC Hawken that I described above that I currently have set up for percussion. I still have the vent and flint lock that came with it when purchased new. I've never run across another the drum and nipple arrangement on another TC. Has anyone else ? View attachment 19860 View attachment 19861

Never saw a complete outfit but, a couple years ago there was a conversion kit on evil-bay still in the TC packaging. Forget now what ridiculous price it went for.

 

[OldRust]

This one came from TC new in the box with all the conversion components. Its funny I had no use for the percussion side at the time but it was the last one in the store. Evidently no one else in the mountains of PA wanted anything but a flinter at the time.

 

[bubba.50]

This one came from TC new in the box with all the conversion components. Its funny I had no use for the percussion side at the time but it was the last one in the store. Evidently no one else in the mountains of PA wanted anything but a flinter at the time.

Not positive but, I think maybe at that time PA was a ‘flinchlock only’ state.

 

[OldRust]

Not positive but, I think maybe at that time PA was a ‘flinchlock only’ state.

Yep 1974 was the first year for the PA muzzleloader flintlock deer season and we have had one every year since in January. Its not as popular now as it was back then. Thanks

 

[Adkarcher]

The TC Hawken went through various changes in its production history. Nothing that had effected its accuracy as has already been mentioned.

Most of the changes were cosmetic in nature. Listed below are some of these that I’m aware of?

1. The earliest model had an iron trigger guard. Was then switched to brass. Not sure of the year?

2. Stock change in the comb area. The early models had a more pronounced comb where it meets the wrist of the stock.

3. one screw nose cap vs two screw nose cap. Again, not sure of year change?

4. Lock bolt escutcheon. Old type had a lip that was sunk into stock to help secure it in place. New type escutcheon had a flat base. Newer type was also slightly taller vs old type.

5. Tang on older model had three screw holes vs two on later type tang. The center screw hole on old type tang was for a peep sight if desired?

6. Furniture which includes: butt plate, trigger guard, nose cap, thimble’s, and lock bolt escutcheon are minutely beefier on later model’s.

7. Breech plug clean out screw absent on newer models.

8. Rear sight? Three variations that I’m aware of.

9. Front sight? Two variations that I’m also aware of.

10. Stamping’s on barrel? Older barrels didn’t have black powder warning stamping’s. Also known as pre warning barrels. Older barrels had various symbols stamped on bottom flat: Heart, Maltese Cross, Star, Letter M with circle around it. These are stamping’s that I’ve personally seen. Not sure what these stamping’s signify? Have heard two different schools of thought. Inspectors stamp, or out sourced barrel from a different manufacturer contracted by TC.

11. Later model barrel also has the word HAWKEN stamped on the right upper flat.

12. Hammer spur change.

13. Tang bolt closest to breech actually screws into trigger guard on later models.

14. Quick Load Accurizor (QLA) is offered on their later model barrel.

In closing: As you can see, there’s been various changes through TC Hawken’s evolution from start to end date of manufacture.

Respectfully, Cowboy

Interesting info, I checked mine out of curiosity. I have the M, but no circle around it, no pre-warning.

 

[ASMman]

Hey OldRust,

Again, I never knew they offered that conversion.
I did my Pedersoli 30 some years ago when I was in Trade School.
Removed the stainless vent, replaced it with a Homemade Drum &
set it up with a TC 1/4-28 nipple. Never thought they'd change the
dimensions on their nipples, but at one point they shortened them
over .100".

AntiqueSledMan.

 

[bubba.50]

I believe the shorter nipples probably came about because they started havin’ the half-cock so far forward you couldn’t cap the gun without goin’ to full-cock.

 

[OldRust]

Hey OldRust,

Again, I never knew they offered that conversion.
I did my Pedersoli 30 some years ago when I was in Trade School.
Removed the stainless vent, replaced it with a Homemade Drum &
set it up with a TC 1/4-28 nipple. Never thought they'd change the
dimensions on their nipples, but at one point they shortened them
over .100".

AntiqueSledMan.

That's a good looking & clean conversion. I have run across both nipples on the TC's. I'm not sure of why they changes them.

 

[OldRust]

I believe the shorter nipples probably came about because they started havin’ the half-cock so far forward you couldn’t cap the gun without goin’ to full-cock.

That would make sense.