T/C Hawken Rifle discontinued?

[nkbj]

It's an honor and a privilege to own a high quality American made TC front stuffer. Or more.

 

[nkbj]

Speaking of which, I'm going to try out heavies in a .50 Renegade soon. The manual says 100 grains FFg with 460-470 grain conicals. Should be fun finding out which design shoots the best.
I never shoot more than 90 grains of FFg with a 400 grainer in the .458 bore New Englander.

 

[ebiggs1]

All sugar coated ways of say, "the sidelock market is shrinking."

To that I say :haha: and :bull:

I guess we'll see, now won't we? :hmm:

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

All sugar coated ways of say, "the sidelock market is shrinking."

To that I say :haha: and :bull:

I guess we'll see, now won't we? :hmm:

That's your opinion and opinions rarely change.... :hatsoff:

 

[jdkerstetter]

I guess we'll see, now won't we? :hmm:

Maybe we will, but I don't know how you will measure it with thousands of used TC's and Italian and Spanish spin-off' being traded on the used market and probably over a thousand guys building guns in the U.S. alone.

Even if there were no mass produced side lock guns being built any longer the only people taking the hit would be the retailers. There will still be a market for traditional guns....and a good one. I don't know of any builder of skill hurting for orders and even know some turning work away.

As far as the TC Hawkin, in my opinion, they just couldn't hold a market share selling them at near $800 a copy up against good used ones going for $400, give or take. Build a product to last and eventually the market will reach a point where it won't bear anymore.....seems simple and has been proven over and over again throughout history.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

:applause:

To you JD, well said.

 

[54ball]

The car that changed the world but by 1927 it was the car almost nobody wanted. Why? They already had one.

 

[Horseless Trooper]

My first muzzle loader was a T/C Hawken .50. Scrimped and saved and bugged/begged the wife( GF back then)after seeing Jerimiah Johnson. I think I paid about $275 new at Fay's Drug Store. Sold it after a couple of years but wished I hadn't. Although I am curently trying to save up for a Fusil de Chasse I wouldn't pass up a used T/C if I found one for the right price. My goal in my old age is to buy all the stupid things I couldn't afford when I was young, 1968 Yamaha 250 Scrambler etc.

 

[nkbj]

Getting another flinter Renegade just in case I need another. Having a lot of fun with one rebored to .58 and seriously thinkering on how to make a long range flinter... what rifling pattern to use with what diameter and twist. Having TC rifles as platforms to tinker with is a blast.

 

[ebiggs1]

That must have been some Board of Directors meeting. Maybe something like this?

Gentlemen, I have bad news to report. Our line of Hawken rifles has been so successful we have to stop production. There just isn't a sole out there that will buy one now as they all have one already. So, if anyone can come up with a less desirable side lock rifle for us to produce, please speak up.

I wonder if that same conservation is going on at Ford Motor Company?

Gentlemen, I have bad news to report. Our line of Ford f-150 trucks has been so successful we have to stop production. There just isn't a sole out there that will buy one now as they all have one already. So, if anyone can come up with a less desirable pick-up for us to produce, please speak up.

Maybe Sony?

Gentlemen, I have bad news to report. Our line of LCD TV sets has been so successful we have to stop production. There just isn't a sole out there that will buy one now as they all have one already. So, if anyone can come up with a less desirable TV for us to produce, please speak up.

Or, maybe..........................................NOT.

 

[jdkerstetter]

....There just isn't a sole out there that will buy one now as they all have one already....

Big business does not profit by catering to the single "sole" out there that doesn't have one. They profit through marketing to the masses. The one "sole" out there that needs or wants something has always been the customer of the custom maker.

T/C is moving on and we know in what direction they are moving. Worse, they have perpetuated that direction by investing heavily in influencing that market....even before they were purchased by S&W. Heck, they've even produced TV shows featuring them and lobbied the different states to change muzzleloading seasons to "fit" their products. IT'S PURELY ABOUT MONEY!!!!

I wonder if that same conservation is going on at Ford Motor Company?....Maybe Sony?...

Apples and oranges here and when one resorts to making arguements like this it is obvious to everyone else that they have been defeated and are refusing to fall to the side of reason.

These companies keep their market share by continuing to produce products that wear out....or become too expensive to maintain. They pray on the fact they have programmed the populace to want the newest, bestest thing....to keep up with the Joneses.

Have you tried to have a TV repaired lately? It is near, if not impossible....and if you can it will likely cost you more than a new one.

Again.....IT'S PURELY ABOUT THE ALL MIGHTY $$$$$$!!!! It's just business. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[cynthialee]

throw away tv's is one of my major pet peeves with our culture

I remember back when I was a rugrat when the TV went on the fritz dad would take the bulbs out of the TV, label them as to where they went then we went to the hardware store and tested the bulbs to find the one that needed replacing. We'd get the right bulb go home and put them all back in, fire up the TV and talk about electronics and repairs the entire time.
That time we spent with dad fixing the TV really left its' mark on one of my brothers (the one I always got in trouble with) he is now an electronics engineer type.

 

[RedFeather]

Well, this raises a good point. Guns fall into the category of durable goods or those things we buy infrequently and keep a long time. If properly cared for, guns can easily outlast several generations of owners. The mass produced side lock market has been churning them out (T/C's and clones) for over forty years. That level of saturation with such products is unsustainable from a marketing perspective. And increasing prices when you are trying to compete with new competitors (non-side locks) doesn't help your case. When you think about any product, forty years with almost zero changes is a very long run.

 

[ebiggs1]

"... when one resorts to making arguements like this it is obvious to everyone else that they have been defeated and are refusing to fall to the side of reason. ..."

What is pretty obvious is your inability to admit the side lock market is shrinking. Follow the money is right. There is not enough money coming from a shrinking market. That is all this “defeated” person is going to say as it seems to me you are the one that has lost his grasp on the facts.

 

[jdkerstetter]

You're entitled to your opinion....but it would be more of a debate if you could back it up with more than just what you observe at Walmart or in the Cabela's and Bass Pro Shop's catalogs.

I contend that the only sidelock muzzleloading market that is shrinking is the cheap retail market. The rest is growing!

The custom and semi-custom builders are hardly keeping up with demand and most have waiting list....some months long, some years.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[smo]

I think I will have to agree with JD, it seems to me more people are buying high end muzzleloaders than ever before. And the market for the factory made rifles just isn't what it once was. After all just about everybody that likes TC's already owns 3 or 4 of them don't we??? :wink: