T/C Hawkins

[cayugad]

I have shot Pyrodex for years out of my T/C Renegade and Hawkins with excellent results. I now shoot Goex but only because that is what I shoot and buy in bulk. Once Wal Mart puts Pyrodex on sale I will have another good supply of that..

The patch problem sounds more like a lube problem. You could try different lubes or put a wonderwad between the power charge and the patched roundball. You can buy wonderwads or make your own with a hollow hole punch. I like the 9/16th size. They are a little bigger then the 1/2 but I think they load better. I knock them out of pure wool felt and then lube them with homemade lube. I use moosemilk as a patch lube on 100% cotton pillow tick cloth I buy from Wal Mart.

On my T/C rifles, I can push a patched roundball up to about 90 grains before the accuracy falls apart. You will have to try your own charges..

As for a swabbing solution. If it is cold where your at, then swab with patch and pure alcohol. It will still pull the fowling out, and dry very quickly in the barrel of the rifle. Actually my rifles are not all that fussy when it comes to fowling...

 

[roundball]

I am shooting pre-lubed patches that I purchased with Natural Lube 1000. Shooting Hornady .490 RB. The only reason I am not shoooting black powder is I couldn't find anyone carrying anything other than Pyrodex. Guess I'll be cleaning between shots and relubing the patches.

Thanks

If you can get some Goex FFFg to use with your Hornady .490's, you'll think you've died and gone to heaven...very fast, clean, accurate, cost effective, and the combination of blackpowder + patched balls is the real deal...it's what our forefathers used to settle our country.

Goex and Hornady balls are all I use year round for practice and filling my deer tags in the fall...I shot Pyrodex for a few years in percussions, but once I started using flintlocks and Goex, I found Goex so superior to Pyrodex that I rezeroed all my percussions with it...once you try it, you won't bother with Pyrodex again...I still have a few unopened lbs of Pyrodex sitting in the garage gathering dust.
:redthumb:

PS: What do you mean by "relubing patches"?

 

I am shooting pre-lubed patches that I purchased with Natural Lube 1000. Shooting Hornady .490 RB. The only reason I am not shoooting black powder is I couldn't find anyone carrying anything other than Pyrodex. Guess I'll be cleaning between shots and relubing the patches.

Thanks

See'ns how yore use'n prelubed patchs,.... try some Pyrodex P, and see if thet don't make yore patchs (and groups) look better!!!!


YMHS
rollingb

 

[CrackStock]

Dave,

I would try real BP when you can. Maine Powder House can ship to you. You can split with some friends or join a club.

I could never get my T/C .50s to shoot well with Pyrodex. Things fell into place when I started moulding my own projectiles and using Goex.

As to the patches destructing, this could be from several causes. Are they cut up, burnt through or blown apart?

I also think that you were still loading a bit hot for patched round ball at 70 grains in a 1/48 twist barrel. (Blown apart patches would be an indicator)

I coached a youth team and we did very well with between 50 and 60 grains of 2f Goex, 490 ball and the thicker prelubed and precut patches. (Some guns liked .495 better -- harder to load, but better scores.) This load was a bit anemic for big game maybe, but is a starting point and you can work up from there until your PRB load performance drops off. Besides it is nice to see some success after having some disappointments.

We were looking for a hunting round and my son used the 385 grain Hornady (#6620) Great Plains bullet with good result. You may find these on sale at WalMart right now. It was a kid's load, but I think that it was about 70 grains of Goex 3f or just a bit more. You would need to work up your own load and consult the info from the barrel manufacturer and Hornady regarding max loads. I think that the Lyman BP manual had some guidance on this. These bullets were a lot more expensive, but they worked well on the deer hit with them -- which is to say that they did hit.

YMHS,
CrackStock

 

[Davy C]

Without re-reading the posts I don't recall anyone mentioning that if your using cast balls make sure the sprue (mark from where the lead entered the mold)is straight up when you load. But if your patches are all burned up I suspect that is the first thing you need to resolve. Buy some bore butter and try adding extra lube. beyond that rather than buying patches with a different lube (such as wonder lube) I'd buy un-lubed patches (or patch material) and experiment with different products, lubing them yourself. You can try products like crisco, gun grease, 3 in 1 oil, WD40 but if your burning patches I suspect you might have the best results with a liquid based patch lube like ML Cleaning solvent, T/C #13, Moose Milk, or just plain spit. Last I will say is that although I get PRB to shoot in my .54 T/C Hawkin I think the 1/48" twist definately preferes a conical slug.

 

[roundball]

I started hunting for patches which shouldn't have been a problem since I was shooting over 4" of snow. All that was left of the patch were flaming remnants. How do I stop the patches from self destructing?

You should try a thicker, stronger patch...an .018" TC prelubed pillow ticking patch should help significantly.

Then if they still burn, add an Oxyoke wonderwad over the powder...and get the next larger caliber size...ie: use a .54cal wad in a .50cal rifle for a tighter seal, a better firewall.

As a reference example, I shoot a hot hunting load of 90grns Goex FFFg, a TC .018" prelubed pillow ticking patch, .490 Hornady ball, and an Oxyoke wonderwad...I could pick the patches up off the ground and reuse them they still look so good.

 

[irishjim]

Do you know for sure your TC Hawken has slow twist rifling (1:66 or 1:70)? Those are the twist's that work best with PRB.

I have a Hawken 50 cal. kit I built many years ago and it has the 1:48 twist. The 1:48 was designed to stabilize conicals. Although it was advertised as capable of shooting PRB mine never would group them well enough to satisfy me for hunting. I never experienced groups as large as you described using PRB.

Not sure if this could be the root of your problem but it might be part of the cause.

 

[dclark]

The board is just great when it comes to help. The barrel is a 1:48 model. Some one above discussed to hot of a load with the PRB. When shooting over snow all that could be found wass smouldering pieces of the patch or blown apart shreds. There was no looking at patches to diagnos problems. I have located some Goex about an hour away plan on making a run. It's against the law for them to sell it inside the city limits of Houston, TX. Ya know the idiots think it's dynamite. Now never mind that I can by tons of fertilizer. I will also pick up some conicals. I'm not looking to stack balls one on top of the other. I would like to have it shot a group that I feel is adequate to hunt with. The group I hunt with still needs to kill ten or twelve does off the lease. I have no desire to do this with a modern rifle as there is no challenge. Now slippen down a logging road having to get inside fifty yards hoping the rifle booms now your talking. Gets me excited just writing about it.

 

[roundball]

The board is just great when it comes to help. The barrel is a 1:48 model. Some one above discussed to hot of a load with the PRB. When shooting over snow all that could be found wass smouldering pieces of the patch or blown apart shreds. There was no looking at patches to diagnos problems. I have located some Goex about an hour away plan on making a run. It's against the law for them to sell it inside the city limits of Houston, TX. Ya know the idiots think it's dynamite. Now never mind that I can by tons of fertilizer. I will also pick up some conicals. I'm not looking to stack balls one on top of the other. I would like to have it shot a group that I feel is adequate to hunt with. The group I hunt with still needs to kill ten or twelve does off the lease. I have no desire to do this with a modern rifle as there is no challenge. Now slippen down a logging road having to get inside fifty yards hoping the rifle booms now your talking. Gets me excited just writing about it.

FYI...contrary to what some people have been told, a 1:48" TC Hawken barrel shoots patched round balls extremely well...I have some and do it all the time...there's no need for a big heavy conical in a .50cal ML unless your're going after something really, really big.

The .50cal round ball is the .30-30 of muzzleloaders:
A full power .30-30 170grn slug has a MV of about 2200fps.
A full power .50cal 180grn ball has a MV of aorund 2100fps, and is already about twice the size of a .30-30 slug when it gets there.
At typical woods distances, the .30-30 and the .50cal round ball are most outstanding on deer.

My .50cal hunting load is:
90grns Goex FFFg (3F)
.54cal Oxyoke wonderwad (yes, .54)
.018" TC pillow ticking patches
Hornady .490 balls

99% of the time I get complete passthroughs on deer inside 75yds...
:redthumb:

 

[Riley/MN]

The board is just great when it comes to help.

TexasDave,

I'm fairly new to this board, but have been readin this thread and have come up with two other suggestions:

1) I e-mail you my address, you ship me your gun and I'll do all that mundane testing stuff for you. When finished I'll let you know what works best for me.

2) You e-mail me your address, I'll come down and give you a hand with them 10-12 does.

Hey, I'm just tryin' to help.

-Riley

 

[HardBall]

Some one above discussed to hot of a load with the PRB. When shooting over snow all that could be found wass smouldering pieces of the patch or blown apart shreds. There was no looking at patches to diagnos problems.

FWIW, the only time I've ever had "smoldering" patches was when using heavier charges of Pyrodex. It's been some time since I've shot Pyrodex but I only used TC's natural lube or OxYoke's Wonder lube at the time. Another lube may work better with Pyrodex- I don't know. :results:

Whenever you pick up your Goex, if you're still using Wonderlube or TC lube on your patches, as long as they're thoroughly saturated, I doubt you'll see smoldering patches anymore. :m2c:

 

[bob1961]

Shoot the 30/06 at 300 yds well enough to knock down 8 inch steel plate 100% of the time with a rest. Help!!!

now try that same plate at 50 yds off hand with a smokepole and let us know how times you don't hit it :crackup:...........bob

 

[dclark]

I wouldn't try to shoot the plate at a hundred yds offhand with the 30?06 Now if you give me some time so I get the Hawkens grouping. I"ll shoot either one off my shooting stix anytime. I new the question would come up about ability. Just want to make sure I got answers other than are you flinching.
Dad made certain we never took a offhand shoot unless there was no other choice. If we did in front of him and had a choice we lost hunting privleges for awhile. He loved to hunt but respected the animal. Crippling something even if the animal was found was bad style. Besides I'm pushing it at 50yds with open sites and a rest. I am certain the gun can, I can, eyes can't. I refuse to scope the Hawkins. Since I manage
a medical group with eye docs we are also working on the eyes to see if we can change eyes can't to eyes can.

 

Every time I see where it says pyrodex is equilavant to "X" grams of GOEX I got to laff....... :crackup: :crackup: Pyrodex will NEVER be equal to Goex............ PERIOD! :m2c:

Woody

 

[flaming canvas]

Did you kiss him afterward?

 

[flaming canvas]

Whoops, meant to put that on the got a great deal thread.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I recommend buying some pillow ticking at wal-mart and cutting your patches at the muzzle. I tried pre cut patches and had poor ball performance out of my 50 cal TC. I changed to starting my ball and cutting my patches at the muzzle and started shooting 2" or less groups at 50 yds. I lube the patch material with TC natural lube.

 

[roundball]

I recommend buying some pillow ticking at wal-mart and cutting your patches at the muzzle. I tried pre cut patches and had poor ball performance out of my 50 cal TC. I changed to starting my ball and cutting my patches at the muzzle and started shooting 2" or less groups at 50 yds. I lube the patch material with TC natural lube.

That's interesting...I've used nothing but precut/prelubed Oxyoke .015" cotton and TC .018" pillow ticking patches for at least 10 years in various TC Hawkens...never had an accuracy problem with them

 

[dclark]

Well I made it to the range today. Started with 70grs. 2F Goex, .490 RB and .015 wonderlube patches. First 3 rounds at 25yds were 8 inches apart. Added a .54cal wad group shrunk to about 1". Had to wipe the bore ever 2nd shot or it became to hard to seat the ball. Upped the load to 90grs.
and the balls started hitting about 3 inches low in line with the bulls eye nice little group. Unfortuantely, the rear sight was all the way down. Packed things up and started home. Started thinking about having front site raised. Duh!! just take a coarser bead. I had the front bead snugged down close to the sight attempting to replicate a blade site picture. So I'll just be forced to go back tomorrow and work on the site picture by not taking such a fine bead and see what happens. I want to thank everyone for there suggestions and encouragement.

Texasdave

 

[brushbuster]

if your hitting low , RAISE your site !!!!!!!!